That was heavy. Thank you for the food for thought. There should be a service before the Pill service. I'd call it "Enter". As in entering back into life and entering into their own being. It should involve reading some of the great classics of the human condition with the person (and others who would like to join as support) for a complete lunar cycle. Each reading could end with a cup of tea and a little treat in silence. The sessions should end with a reading of Khalil Gibran from the Prophet. "You would know the secret of death. But how shall you find it unless you seek it in the heart of life?" Then ask the person if they still want to exit.
The responder who was "deeply disturbed" hit the nail on the head. The person taking their own life must care little for those who are left behind...my father took his own life 14 years ago last month. I was the last to speak to him. There is still an aching in my heart for how he left my Mom, brother and sister. Those who are "left behind" often face a lifetime of pain by their one act. Since my Dad did not follow the Lord Jesus Christ, he has now entered a Christ-less eternity, full of "wailing and gnashing of teeth..."
Personally, I do not believe there is a "Christ-less eternity, full of 'wailing and gnashing of teeth . . . '" I do; however, believe that God is waiting patiently - with eternal love and forgiveness - for us to return to Her embrace. For some, it might take a few tries.
People who are deeply, deeply depressed can not bear existing one more second. They are in unbearable mental pain. Of course they are not thinking about those they are leaving behind and how their death will affect them. Please don't judge them if you haven't walked in their shoes.
I was suicidal once, in a room with no light, no windows, no doors,-- and walls, floor, and ceiling slowly closing in to crush me. The next morning I lit a candle. The room was full of windows and doors, I JUST COULD NOT SEE IT AT THE TIME. For me the tragedy of suicide is the assumption that you know all there is, when in fact you don't.
I read a study years ago of ninety people who had attempted suicide and recovered to tell about it. Every one said the same thing: as soon as they did what they did, they realized they had made a terrible mistake, and their prayer was the same: "Give me another chance. I did not understand." They were given another chance. Not everyone is so fortunate.
Throwing the gift of Life back in the face of the Giver is not the best idea.
Maybe a glass of good Malbec Wine with friends at a campfire or living room will give us some respite, peace and understanding of life in this vast universe.
The fact that Paine had 6 friends show up at his funeral tells me that he had 6 true friends. People get lost in numbers. I have watched the explosive growth of Facebook and other social media that the so called modern world has brought us. When I hear folks boast that they have 50, 100, or some even in the thousands of friends I shake my head and wonder if they truly have any friends at all or if they know the difference between a friend and an acquaintance - they are no the same. I have told many an individual that if they have 5 or 6 true friends in their entire life they should consider themselves lucky. A true friend will stick with you through thick or thin no matter the odds - either it be a bar room brawl, regardless of the odds or wild success or failure one has in their life. They will not envy what you have or despise you for it. A true friend will tell you what you need to hear that you may be missing, and not what you want to hear and still be a friend if you disagree.
I can't help wondering whether, without Exit, she would have had the gumption to commit suicide the way untold numbers of other people chose to die by their own hand; that is, alone, sometimes with a gun.
Elderly who live alone and who have lost a sense of purpose or who cannot find joy in their surroundings or whose bodies cause them grievous pain are especially vulnerable.
It's easy for them to rationalize that, with their end nearing due to a demise caused by the ravages of age, they'll just accelerate the process by choosing the time, place and method of their end
It seems to me that when a person decides to end his or her life it is a very personal decision that they do not wish to be anymore. Either mental, physical, or spiritual pain is too great to bare any longer. Marie was depressed to the point of wanting to end it all. Who has a right to tell her to keep right on suffering indefinitely. Marie had the right to end her own life. The government did not step in an stay that she must proceed. It was not mandatory. It was all her decision. In my view that was compassionate of the Swiss Exit organization to help her. It does not matter if Marie felt abandoned by God or even if there is a God. It does not matter if she had no choice about being born. She had a choice to end her life on her terms and she did just that. It does not matter that she might have been able to take some meds to help aleviate the pain of depression. Most anti depressant drugs do not make life better. They just shut off some of the anguish and make one feel like they are in a parallel universe. It is not a normal feeling ever.
The hope is that the drugs will work enough to save the person from suicide long enough to find a real cure. In the mean time, the person is in limbo or worse. Who gives the do gooders the right to 'save' a person from suicide only to make them suffer for years more on drugs. God help us from such 'help'.
No. Marie chose her path because she simply had had enough of life in its current form for her.
Yes, there probably were valid alternatives for her. But why should she be forced to live the mandates of others who do not feel her pain?
Suicide is permanent. I get that. But should great depression be permanent as well?
If I saw a person about to jump off a high bridge to their death, I would probably try to reason with them. But Marie had lots of time to reason it out herself. She made a decision. She was not crazy. She died a peaceful death and stopped the suffering forever.
I cannot disagree with that decision. Or her right to make that decision.
If I am confronted with such a decision in my life or end of life, I hope to hell that someone does not come along and try to stop me. I might just take them along with me! Good intentions are pave the road to hell.
As for the 'others' affected: Yes, they will be hurt and feel grief. Is that enough reason to keep suffering extreme depression? Not in my book. Is it selfish. Hell yes! A person lives life within every second of every day. There is no real escape from self. Meditation helps some. Others not so much. But, the others must accept what is real for the one suffering. They can offer help and sympathy. But in the end, the sufferer is the one who most live with depression. All the drugs and words and help offered did not stop the pain.
The pill stopped the pain. They shoud all be glad she found peace.
There is a contradiction - the eugenics people are using covid vaccines to lower the population to half a billion people. At the same time, most governments forbid suicide, and classify you as mad if you attempt it. The governments do not recognise your freedom to decide what to do with your own body. You can not choose to avoid vaccines that can kill you or drive you mad, but you can not kill yourself.
Living and dying to everyone is a very personal choice. Not having walked in someones own shoes does not make everyone else an expert on the individual. It sound as though she reached out to a few folks and mentioned her plans. In the story it did not sound like anyone reached back. It was not an act she apparently rushed into in a particular fit such as a gun can be it sounds as she had given it some thought. As far as a Christless eternity, I may ask is that what all of the Buddhists, Daoists, Muslim's, and Deist's are doing? I find my self more of a Deist and have read Thomas Paine " The age of Reason" for any of you who have not read it I suggest you do. I was brought up Christian and schooled in a Lutheran based college attending religious studies to get a BA. Blindly believing what you have been told could equally be called faith or hearsay. Depends on your outlook and this is a decision a rational person must make for them selves lest they be pestered with a feeling of perpetually being confused and lost. Not that I have the answer but I keep an open mind and can admire that many other fols do as well. I firmly believe that if your strong and grounded in your own faith or beliefs you should have no problem reading about others or theirs. Mental illness is not much different than cancer. It is an illness and we all know that in many cases we survive and in many cases we do not. Choices we all have to make them in the end.
Yes my Brother...We all ask forgiveness, but those who chose death over life...there but for the grace of God go I...YOUR CHOICE...which ONLY God gives us all.
This is the most disheartening piece I have read, however well stated. The heart of man is deceitful and desperately wicked as the Psalmist put it. Governments as an entity is over its head to condone such practices. We as a civilization lose as well. Hearing this saddens me to the core. I feel for those left behind, those who participated and another soul lost forever.
That as actually Jeremiah who said that, but it is true none the less. Sweden is actually giving the people what it wants, USA should do likewise but in the same form as this Exit corporation. At least all involved knew the feelings of the soon to be departed. Intervention could have solved the problem the children could have stopped their waring or all could have entered counseling towards some form of reconciliation. At least she did not rob her family of that choice. Where Carlos robbed his family of this choice with his rash decision.
yep somewhere in our recent evil-ution humans got the idea that they (humans) are god and their is no other source/force intelligence or otherwise that can be 'fact checked' or measured and determined absolutely by science/facts as indisputable so humans now have them sleves as their own GOD .. who needs any outside/external beliefs ? when it's obvious we can be our own GOD without the slightest doubt .. right? well lucky that the ignorant masses (2/3 of world pop) still have a fundamental belief in a greater force/source of life and creation in spite of our modern scientific ignorance .. exception are of course often kept hidden by our fourth (Media) estate so books like 'God's Undertaker' by JC Lennox is a wonderful example that scientific intelligence in fact substantiates the existence of a 'creator' beyond doubt! but would western scientists in their mutated state ever consider an intelligent option/design? like weaning the world off of Keynesian economics/fantasies .. not going to happen so let them eat cake or kill themselves and yes many will suffer but a few will wake up maybe ..
I agree that the govt interferes with way too many things. But hey -- what is wrong with dying? There is nothing wrong with it, and we all do it. In fact, it's a wonderful thing to do -- just like being born. When we die we are being reborn into another reality. That's great. I don't want anyone to grieve for me when I die, Celebrate me! Celebrate the beauty that I brought to the world! Celebrate what you learned from me!
That was heavy. Thank you for the food for thought. There should be a service before the Pill service. I'd call it "Enter". As in entering back into life and entering into their own being. It should involve reading some of the great classics of the human condition with the person (and others who would like to join as support) for a complete lunar cycle. Each reading could end with a cup of tea and a little treat in silence. The sessions should end with a reading of Khalil Gibran from the Prophet. "You would know the secret of death. But how shall you find it unless you seek it in the heart of life?" Then ask the person if they still want to exit.
The responder who was "deeply disturbed" hit the nail on the head. The person taking their own life must care little for those who are left behind...my father took his own life 14 years ago last month. I was the last to speak to him. There is still an aching in my heart for how he left my Mom, brother and sister. Those who are "left behind" often face a lifetime of pain by their one act. Since my Dad did not follow the Lord Jesus Christ, he has now entered a Christ-less eternity, full of "wailing and gnashing of teeth..."
Personally, I do not believe there is a "Christ-less eternity, full of 'wailing and gnashing of teeth . . . '" I do; however, believe that God is waiting patiently - with eternal love and forgiveness - for us to return to Her embrace. For some, it might take a few tries.
People who are deeply, deeply depressed can not bear existing one more second. They are in unbearable mental pain. Of course they are not thinking about those they are leaving behind and how their death will affect them. Please don't judge them if you haven't walked in their shoes.
Brilliant article again. One that makes you think deep. How can someone even think of an organization like Exit? The devil hard at work...
I was suicidal once, in a room with no light, no windows, no doors,-- and walls, floor, and ceiling slowly closing in to crush me. The next morning I lit a candle. The room was full of windows and doors, I JUST COULD NOT SEE IT AT THE TIME. For me the tragedy of suicide is the assumption that you know all there is, when in fact you don't.
I read a study years ago of ninety people who had attempted suicide and recovered to tell about it. Every one said the same thing: as soon as they did what they did, they realized they had made a terrible mistake, and their prayer was the same: "Give me another chance. I did not understand." They were given another chance. Not everyone is so fortunate.
Throwing the gift of Life back in the face of the Giver is not the best idea.
Earl G.
Maybe a glass of good Malbec Wine with friends at a campfire or living room will give us some respite, peace and understanding of life in this vast universe.
The fact that Paine had 6 friends show up at his funeral tells me that he had 6 true friends. People get lost in numbers. I have watched the explosive growth of Facebook and other social media that the so called modern world has brought us. When I hear folks boast that they have 50, 100, or some even in the thousands of friends I shake my head and wonder if they truly have any friends at all or if they know the difference between a friend and an acquaintance - they are no the same. I have told many an individual that if they have 5 or 6 true friends in their entire life they should consider themselves lucky. A true friend will stick with you through thick or thin no matter the odds - either it be a bar room brawl, regardless of the odds or wild success or failure one has in their life. They will not envy what you have or despise you for it. A true friend will tell you what you need to hear that you may be missing, and not what you want to hear and still be a friend if you disagree.
I can't help wondering whether, without Exit, she would have had the gumption to commit suicide the way untold numbers of other people chose to die by their own hand; that is, alone, sometimes with a gun.
Elderly who live alone and who have lost a sense of purpose or who cannot find joy in their surroundings or whose bodies cause them grievous pain are especially vulnerable.
It's easy for them to rationalize that, with their end nearing due to a demise caused by the ravages of age, they'll just accelerate the process by choosing the time, place and method of their end
It seems to me that when a person decides to end his or her life it is a very personal decision that they do not wish to be anymore. Either mental, physical, or spiritual pain is too great to bare any longer. Marie was depressed to the point of wanting to end it all. Who has a right to tell her to keep right on suffering indefinitely. Marie had the right to end her own life. The government did not step in an stay that she must proceed. It was not mandatory. It was all her decision. In my view that was compassionate of the Swiss Exit organization to help her. It does not matter if Marie felt abandoned by God or even if there is a God. It does not matter if she had no choice about being born. She had a choice to end her life on her terms and she did just that. It does not matter that she might have been able to take some meds to help aleviate the pain of depression. Most anti depressant drugs do not make life better. They just shut off some of the anguish and make one feel like they are in a parallel universe. It is not a normal feeling ever.
The hope is that the drugs will work enough to save the person from suicide long enough to find a real cure. In the mean time, the person is in limbo or worse. Who gives the do gooders the right to 'save' a person from suicide only to make them suffer for years more on drugs. God help us from such 'help'.
No. Marie chose her path because she simply had had enough of life in its current form for her.
Yes, there probably were valid alternatives for her. But why should she be forced to live the mandates of others who do not feel her pain?
Suicide is permanent. I get that. But should great depression be permanent as well?
If I saw a person about to jump off a high bridge to their death, I would probably try to reason with them. But Marie had lots of time to reason it out herself. She made a decision. She was not crazy. She died a peaceful death and stopped the suffering forever.
I cannot disagree with that decision. Or her right to make that decision.
If I am confronted with such a decision in my life or end of life, I hope to hell that someone does not come along and try to stop me. I might just take them along with me! Good intentions are pave the road to hell.
As for the 'others' affected: Yes, they will be hurt and feel grief. Is that enough reason to keep suffering extreme depression? Not in my book. Is it selfish. Hell yes! A person lives life within every second of every day. There is no real escape from self. Meditation helps some. Others not so much. But, the others must accept what is real for the one suffering. They can offer help and sympathy. But in the end, the sufferer is the one who most live with depression. All the drugs and words and help offered did not stop the pain.
The pill stopped the pain. They shoud all be glad she found peace.
At last.
There is a contradiction - the eugenics people are using covid vaccines to lower the population to half a billion people. At the same time, most governments forbid suicide, and classify you as mad if you attempt it. The governments do not recognise your freedom to decide what to do with your own body. You can not choose to avoid vaccines that can kill you or drive you mad, but you can not kill yourself.
Living and dying to everyone is a very personal choice. Not having walked in someones own shoes does not make everyone else an expert on the individual. It sound as though she reached out to a few folks and mentioned her plans. In the story it did not sound like anyone reached back. It was not an act she apparently rushed into in a particular fit such as a gun can be it sounds as she had given it some thought. As far as a Christless eternity, I may ask is that what all of the Buddhists, Daoists, Muslim's, and Deist's are doing? I find my self more of a Deist and have read Thomas Paine " The age of Reason" for any of you who have not read it I suggest you do. I was brought up Christian and schooled in a Lutheran based college attending religious studies to get a BA. Blindly believing what you have been told could equally be called faith or hearsay. Depends on your outlook and this is a decision a rational person must make for them selves lest they be pestered with a feeling of perpetually being confused and lost. Not that I have the answer but I keep an open mind and can admire that many other fols do as well. I firmly believe that if your strong and grounded in your own faith or beliefs you should have no problem reading about others or theirs. Mental illness is not much different than cancer. It is an illness and we all know that in many cases we survive and in many cases we do not. Choices we all have to make them in the end.
Thanks Jon , The Age of Reason for free in Archive Internet.
PGV that was one of the best responses I red in long time. God Bless and thank you!
Yes my Brother...We all ask forgiveness, but those who chose death over life...there but for the grace of God go I...YOUR CHOICE...which ONLY God gives us all.
Smoking (tobacco) can kill you!
Wow, your writing is always thought provoking but this is on a different level
This is the most disheartening piece I have read, however well stated. The heart of man is deceitful and desperately wicked as the Psalmist put it. Governments as an entity is over its head to condone such practices. We as a civilization lose as well. Hearing this saddens me to the core. I feel for those left behind, those who participated and another soul lost forever.
That as actually Jeremiah who said that, but it is true none the less. Sweden is actually giving the people what it wants, USA should do likewise but in the same form as this Exit corporation. At least all involved knew the feelings of the soon to be departed. Intervention could have solved the problem the children could have stopped their waring or all could have entered counseling towards some form of reconciliation. At least she did not rob her family of that choice. Where Carlos robbed his family of this choice with his rash decision.
yep somewhere in our recent evil-ution humans got the idea that they (humans) are god and their is no other source/force intelligence or otherwise that can be 'fact checked' or measured and determined absolutely by science/facts as indisputable so humans now have them sleves as their own GOD .. who needs any outside/external beliefs ? when it's obvious we can be our own GOD without the slightest doubt .. right? well lucky that the ignorant masses (2/3 of world pop) still have a fundamental belief in a greater force/source of life and creation in spite of our modern scientific ignorance .. exception are of course often kept hidden by our fourth (Media) estate so books like 'God's Undertaker' by JC Lennox is a wonderful example that scientific intelligence in fact substantiates the existence of a 'creator' beyond doubt! but would western scientists in their mutated state ever consider an intelligent option/design? like weaning the world off of Keynesian economics/fantasies .. not going to happen so let them eat cake or kill themselves and yes many will suffer but a few will wake up maybe ..
A recipient of more than eleven neck and back surgeries-- first have them AND THEN JUDGE.
I agree that the govt interferes with way too many things. But hey -- what is wrong with dying? There is nothing wrong with it, and we all do it. In fact, it's a wonderful thing to do -- just like being born. When we die we are being reborn into another reality. That's great. I don't want anyone to grieve for me when I die, Celebrate me! Celebrate the beauty that I brought to the world! Celebrate what you learned from me!