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Jimm Roberts's avatar

For reasons that escape me and many others, our current president was persuaded to wage war with Iran on behalf of Israel

Baffling since Iran was never and, despite enduring heavy bombing, is not now a threat to the US.

The chaos and cost to the US, to the Gulf states and to all countries whose well being is dependent on oil imported from the region is solely attributable to Trump and his coterie of advisors who aim to please.

The comment from an unknown NYT subscriber reflects the views of many if not most Americans:

"Attacking Iran is the most humiliating, immoral, ill-conceived and disastrous action by an American president in history.

Trump’s apparent war crimes have not just irreparably damaged America and our standing in the world, he has spawned the next generation of terrorists motivated to kill Americans.

Too bad Congress isn’t alive to do something about this, because, contrary Trump’s claims, God is probably not on our side according to the Pope."

Angry Icebergs's avatar

I like your quip - "too bad Congress isn't alive".

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God is likely on no one's side.

God apparently doesn't take sides or the world would be conflict free.

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It's not about fairness, happiness, righteousness, or morality... it's about survival.

It's about King dollar and occidental culture.

It's about a peaceful middle east region.

(peaceful defined as friendly governments to the U.S.)

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The EU is already lost... Trump doesn't want the same for the U.S.

Jimm Roberts's avatar

Worthy goals; Abysmal tactics.

Better had our flag followed trade.

A simple litmus test is your response if the roles were reversed.

Angry Icebergs's avatar

I believe all governments will do what' best for their supporters.

Iran is no different, they care only for their devotees...

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I am very relieved the roles are not reversed.

Which is why I support the Orange Man... despite the "abysmal tactics".

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When dealing with folks renowned for their evasive haggling and deceitful promises, outright violent threats scribed on bombs, plastered on buildings and spoken prayers of death...

Why would anyone think a simple "please" would suffice?

Abysmal seems to be the only thing they understand.

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If I am to believe what I am propagated.

The middle east will be a friendlier, wealthier region and oil will flow unabated....

Tom Langdon's avatar

So you commented that Iran, in terms of their policies, "support their devotees" .Just to be clear Iran has no devotees only subservient observers. The only devotee they have is Allah and that is why they are so dangerous.

Thomas E. Vincze's avatar

"Iran has no devotees only subservient observers. The only devotee they have is Allah and that is why they are so dangerous."

Are you sure you aren't talking about Trump and his slavish supporters?

Angry Icebergs's avatar

Oh... but I disagree...

The ruse is Allah.

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Former Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad says 60 percent of his country's wealth is controlled by just 300 people in Iran.

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As with all countries (including the U.S.), those "in the party" fare better...

Ed Burns's avatar

I like his upfront and clear-cut admission; "for reasons that escape me"

Angry Icebergs's avatar

Thank you for your attention to this matter...

Tom Langdon's avatar

Jimmy, Jimmy, Jimmy your comment vis-a-vis the NYT quote "Attacking Iran is the most humiliating, immoral, ill-conceived and disastrous action by an American president on history" (your comment) i.e...."reflects the view of many if not most Americans" is simply a function of your political belief system. It in no way reflects my views nor the views of half of American population. Have you noticed, when reading the responses to Bill's daily missives, that maybe half of the respondents support Trump's Middle East policies generally, and the war with Iran specifically. Jimmy, perspective is everything as I am sure you are well aware of. Having said that Jimm, I mostly enjoy your posts.

Jimm Roberts's avatar

I look forward to your justification that most Americans are are rejoicing over the consequences of using their treasure and the lives of innocents to smite a non-existent threat to the US; to acquire ever higher energy prices and a faster growing Federal deficit much less triggering the renewal of a religious war (Shiites vs Sunnis) and to exacerbate an existing one (Shiites vs Israeli Jews).

Sluggo's avatar

Was Iraq ever a threat to the U.S.? Your idol and hero GHWB thought so. Did you? Did you support his son’s blatant aggression and invasion of Iraq?

Any “yes” identifies and exposes you as a hypocrite; your opposition now only due to your open disdain of the president.

Jimm Roberts's avatar

Sluggo,

You have me confused with someone else. I routinely referred to GHWB's son and his veep as Doofus and Darth.

They invaded not one but two countries -- neither a threat to us -- and in so doing unleashed Iran, a regional menace that had been long been kept in check by Iraq (using weapons supplied by the USA)

But our current president's decision to wage a war on behalf of Israel surpasses the stupidity and waste of Doofus and Darth.

Apparently, only Vance had misgivings and no one foresaw the worldwide consequences.

James ( Jim) Marshall's avatar

This is the continued "rope a dope" tactic employed by Iran forever. The straits are INTERNATIONAL waters. A countries limits extend 12 miles from their shores, period. No NUKS and open the straits are fundamental period, the rest of the talk is smoke and mirrors. No one can be allowed to put a "choke chair" around the neck of the rest of the world.

Jim Marshall

Ed Burns's avatar

You're correct Jim. However, while the world is fulminating about Trumps "aggressions", it conveniently overlooks its own shortcomings.

The first crack in our alliances appeared when China's WTO membership was redefined by China to include the right to ignore whatever international laws it chooses - which will now set the standard for Iran (and whomever else in the future). Here, I'm speaking of the previous ruling from the Maritime Commission in the Hague specific to China's claim to most of the South China Sea. Particularly, with regard to its expansion of military bases in the Spratley Islands - and to underscore its plans for Taiwan.

This now becomes a template for Iran to control Hormuz. The only question at hand - both then and now - is the old "whadaya goin' to do about it?"

Obviously, the Europeans aren't going to provide any real leadership, military help or meaningful resistance, so it will come down to the USA and a small group of allies. The Israelis and some border state Eastern European nations, nervously contemplating what the other Euros on their Western flanks can be counted on to do on their behalf if Russia decides to get "sporty".

In the wake of the Iranians showing teeth to their immediate neighbors, Middle Eastern nations will also be looking for our help too and there any alliance will probably fall along the lines of ancient religious hostilities between Shiite and Sunni - which is why any prosecution of the war against the Alawite Hezbollah (a subset of Iran's' Shiite sect) will be resisted by Iran.

So back to Trump. To blink or not to blink...

We do live in interesting times, eh?

James ( Jim) Marshall's avatar

Ed, I agree with you 100%.

Fazal Sheriff's avatar

Let’s start from the Beginning:1. Did Congress Approve This War? 2. Were the American People notified? 3. And, Before the War… The St of Hormuz .. Opened✅

Tom Langdon's avatar

Fazal, your timeline is just abit off. The beginning was 47 years ago.

Tim Pallies's avatar

Was that before or after we toppled their government and installed our puppet?

Tom Langdon's avatar

Good point, but different time and different issues.

Ed Burns's avatar

Before. We do that sort of thing when necessary. Pahlavi was used to ouster a Russian sympathizer during the Cold War era. For those who appreciate historical context, look at the map of Iran established in 1915. It shows Iran neatly divided between the twin colonial powers of Russia in the North and the British in the South. Tehran is in the Northern part. Come the Cold War, at the end of WWII, we found it necessary to “arrange a change”. You may not like it and the Shah engaged in his own brutalities (endemic to the region), but there it is. “Realpolitik” writ large. That being said, the Mullahs have been far more brutal to their own and threatening to us, than the Russians or the Shah, ever were. So….

Tim Pallies's avatar

I'm not informed enough to argue much on this topic, but for some reason I felt the need to call out what seems like a very convenient timeline "started" in 1947.

Ed Burns's avatar

I assume you’re pointing out the establishment of the state of Israel. Yes? But there were a number of Iranian internal upheaval that were more impactful. For instance, in 1921 it was the British that backed a coup by Reza Khan (Shah Pahlavi’s father) to overthrow the Russian puppet government. It was about securing oil energy for Britain then. Some things don’t change. BTW; in this same time period the British, having taken control over much of the ME from German- Turk control had tried to broker a two-state peace between Jews and Muslims in what is now Israel (Palestine then) and met stiff resistance from the Arab Palestinians. Those things haven’t changed either.

Ed Burns's avatar

Moreover, the last declaration of War was in WWII. All other kinetic actions have been done, legally, under the auspices of conducting a "Policing Action".

James ( Jim) Marshall's avatar

Your reply doesn't change anything I said. After 47 years it's long overdue for someone (us) to end this global threat.

Ed Burns's avatar

Some additional food for thought; “Dhimmitude” is a concept where non-Muslims are held in second class status and made to pay a tax. We now see Iran seeking to treat the non-Muslim energy shippers as “Dhimmis”. Essentially defying International Open Seas laws in the international waters of the Strait of Hormuz by exacting a tax on shipping. If we capitulate to this, we’re agreeing that international law is irrelevant and that we non-Muslims are second class. Just so people are fully aware… It’s really not a good idea to agree to this IMO.

Bart Nelson's avatar

Somebody wake Bill up! Some asshole(s) have taken over his newsletter! This newsletter took a turn for the worse in 2015, when Trump announced that he was running for office. Prior to that, you would have thought that politics had no effect on the economy (other than Bill's obsession with the gold backed dollar from 1971(55 years ago)) prior to Trump. I don't even know why I am still subscribed to this newsletter anymore.

Ed Burns's avatar

Tom & Dan for me. Appreciate Bill introducing me to his history lessons and Joel Bowman has me contemplating a visit to Buenos Aires on my way to a fishing trip in the Patagonia.

Egypt Solomon's avatar

President Trump has just announced a “ceasefire”, which in Trump dialect translates to, “everyone keep shooting, but politely.”

And The Administration finally achieved the perfect synthesis of war and peace, a condition where neither exists, but both are loudly declared.

So now Mr. Trump wants a ceasefire that lasts shorter than a bathroom break? That’s not diplomacy, that’s a commercial break.

They’ve turned reality into a press release that expires before the ink dries. Every side agrees to stop fighting, immediately followed by an Israeli coordinated effort to ignore the agreement like its terms and conditions on a cursed app while President Trump stands there, nodding like a malfunctioning philosopher-king, whispering, “We have achieved stability,” and the map behind him looks like the cratered moon.

The Strait stays closed, the bombs stay open, and the definition of “peace” gets stretched so thin it snaps and whips everyone in the face.

This is my favorite kind of ceasefire though, the kind where literally nobody stops. Iran says one thing. Israel says another, and Trump says, “Yeah, we nailed it.” Meanwhile, the entire region’s acting like they just signed a contract written in invisible ink.

“Who cried uncle?” Nobody. They just started punching slower and calling it progress, and the best part, they’re negotiating shipping lanes like it’s a toll road run by a guy holding a flamethrower. “Oh sure, you can pass Mister, just go ahead and coordinate with the folks we labeled terrorists yesterday.”

A hostage policy situation with paperwork.

But it gets better! Trump’s out there celebrating like he just brokered peace, but all he really did was invent a new department. The Department of War Lite™, same destruction, fewer expectations.

Ultimately, the ceasefire seems like a pretty good idea, if it ever happens.

They said it started… and then, it didn’t. Then it did again, but only for certain people, and certain places, and certain hours. And then by the afternoon, it was gone. That’s a pretty short ceasefire. I’ve had naps longer than that, and I don’t even sleep well.

And now everyone’s confused, well, except the missiles. They seem to understand the schedule just fine.

The Stock market celebrate the end of the world, then panics when the world refuses to end on schedule.

Oil drops. Bombs rise. Countries dissolve. And somewhere in the middle of it all, President Trump adjusts his tie and says:

“Everything is under control.”

Meanwhile, the only ones who stopped fighting are the poor bastards wondering why they ever started.

Robert Hall's avatar

ES, your comment reads like one big half of an opinion. So, what are your ideas for responding to Iran's holy trinity: Developing nuclear weapons, waging wars through proxies, and deploying offensive (long range) missiles? And…all that accompanied by decades of threats backed up by deadly actions.

Tim Pallies's avatar

Sorry. No time to comment. I'm out celebrating the cease fire.

Xavier Narutowicz's avatar

It has become the far North, the magnetic fields of Fox lunacy have taken over Bonner, the compass of truth is worthlessly spinning out of control.

I wonder when Ralph Waldo Emerson’s “Compensation” is going to kick in.

You people have no shame. Trump is an ass.

pete's avatar

The 1913 coup.

The parasitic state and its larcenists continue.

Drill baby drill, that would be hillarious if were not serious and who can make this stuff up?. The Parasitic Super Rich Ruling Class (PSRRC) as defined by an ex combat veteran who nails it.

Iran profits, US profits, Israel profits except, and here's the catch, it's on someone elses dime. Sorry not dime, thats ridiculous, as if that surrmounts to a valid concern. More like a wholesale looting of grandiose proportions a extraction of resources slipped out from underneath the noses of the beer induced coma made up of the general populace smart or otherwise.

How does it end. ?

An Ol' LSO's avatar

pete, exactly! And, us peons who roam Ol' Bill's comments have opinions - and, while we each have our views, it does NOT matter at all. The Deep State is in charge and no matter whether you are a lover of Trump or a hater of Trump it does not matter. As George Carlin suggest a long time ago - "it is a big club, and none of us is in it." And, neither is Ol' Bill. You can think any Palestine in Gaza are free to be murdered by the IDF and you can think Iran can rain terror on Israel since they are trying to get a bomb, but it does not matter. You, me, Ol' Bill - we all just do not matter. It is all about money and power, and power and money. It is the way of we humans. Has been since humans have roamed the earth. So, get a grip and like Tim Pallies is doing - and Toby Keith sang -

Try to love on your wife

And stay close to your friends

Toast each sundown with wine

Don't let the old man in

pete's avatar

Yes true to that !

Fraser M's avatar

Elegant and eloquent, sir!

Fraser M's avatar

An interesting argument. My challenge is that it assumes the war is being fought to American rules. Take the capital, kill the King, the rest will surely follow.

But as anyone who has studied history will tell you, unless you persuade the enemy to fight under your rules, he's very difficult to defeat unconditionally. The leadership decentralises, the drones and Uranium are dispersed, the military put on civilian clothes and guerilla war ensues.

Anyone who'd also studied nature would also know that an animal is at its most dangerous when cornered with nothing to lose. Don't discount a grand exit by the Iranians even if the US manage to "win" on their terms.

Clem Devine's avatar

For those of you crowing that Trump lost the war, consider the following from someone who analyzes Iran for a think tank.

"Ceasefire

1- The United States gained a two-week window to control the oil and gas market and confront the Islamic Republic from a higher and better position.

2- The Islamic Republic lost its card to create a crisis in the oil and gas market.

3- Trump's threat to destroy power plants and bridges elevated the threats from the United States and Israel to the level of threats against the survival of the Islamic Republic, forcing the regime to retreat.

4- This retreat is like the retreat after the final defeats in the war with Iraq, when the regime was forced to accept Resolution 598 to avoid collapse.

5- The retreat under pressure is similar to the acceptance of the JCPOA in 2015 due to fear of economic collapse during that period.

6- Trump intends to include four main conditions in any agreement, which again means the surrender of the Islamic Republic. The four conditions are: halting enrichment, halting the ballistic missile program, cutting support for proxies, and handing over enriched uranium.

7- If the Islamic Republic accepts these conditions, it is surrender; if it does not, the likelihood of war restarting is very high.

8- The Islamic Republic has lost Khamenei and a very large number of its commanders and officials, making this top level of the government structure fragile, while the Islamic Republic has not been able to kill any of the commanders and officials of the United States and Israel.

9- The IRGC Navy commander was killed, and the force itself was severely damaged and cannot be rebuilt anytime soon.

10- The Islamic Republic's air force has been almost completely destroyed, with many bases and aircraft demolished.

11- The country's air defense has been almost completely destroyed and is ineffective.

12- The country's skies are still under the control of the United States and Israel.

13- Most petrochemical industries, as a source of foreign currency revenue, have been destroyed.

14- Many military industries across the country have been destroyed.

15- Many Basij headquarters and bases have been destroyed.

16- Police command centers in the provinces and many police stations have been demolished.

17- The Minister of Intelligence and many of the main managers of this ministry have been killed.

18- The head of the IRGC Intelligence Organization has been killed.

19- The head and deputy of Faraja Intelligence have been killed. Overall, it is a major intelligence failure.

20- The head and deputy of the Basij have been killed.

21- The Chief of Staff of the Armed Forces has been killed.

22- Shamkhani, Secretary of the Defense Council, has been killed. The council was unsuccessful in managing the war.

23- The IRGC Commander-in-Chief has been killed.

24- Two heads of the Sepand Organization, responsible for building nuclear weapons for the regime, have been killed.

25- The Minister of Defense has been killed.

26- The Gulf Cooperation Council member states have joined the ranks of the enemies of the Islamic Republic.

27- The route to bypass sanctions through Dubai has been shut down.

28- Friendship with Qatar has been lost and turned into enmity.

29- The country's economy is facing a wave of accumulated demands from the war period and war damages that were deferred during the war and are now flooding the government.

30- The people of Iran, as the most important opposing force against the Islamic Republic, still demand the overthrow of the regime, and after the January massacre, a sea of blood, hatred, and anger has been created between the people and the regime.

31- The ceasefire does not yet mean the end of the war.

32- The Islamic Republic has become even more discredited in the eyes of the people because it abandoned the people and civilians during the war.

33- The Islamic Republic calls these things victory because it hasn't fallen yet.

34- Politics has many ups and downs; patience is required."

https://x.com/RezaVaisi/status/2041693098833518976?s=20

John P Gallien's avatar

Another recap of the news that is covered more thoroughly elsewhere. But Bonner has to come up with his daily column, so he lifts stuff from the anti-Trump, leftwing news media to fulfill his self-imposed obligation. Most of it is useless garbage.

Jimm Roberts's avatar

Lacking rationale why he's wrong makes your lament all sound and fury; not convincing or persuasive.

John P Gallien's avatar

Been there, done that. Bonner's daily rantings are no longer worth my time to refute, only to make a short comment noting my objections. If you want to go into detail with your opinions, go ahead. I'm not wasting my time.

Jimm Roberts's avatar

Rather than bemoan Bonner's opinions, why not explain your perspective? Not refute; just explain your interpretation of the same facts he cites

John P Gallien's avatar

What is it about "been there, done that" that you don't get? I am just registering my objection to his insane columns, nothing more. Bonner is not worth any more of my time. I don't care whether you are persuaded or not. You know, you could also MYOB.

Fraser M's avatar

Its good that them no longer being worth your time to refute has given you more time to refute them.

John P Gallien's avatar

Well, Fraser, maybe you are just a little slow - I don't know. The complaint was that I don't go into enough detail. I gave a short reply. No time at all.