We need to stop using the word "RACE" and all of its forms because it has two popular connotations: 1. Skin Color; and 2. Extended Tribe! For Instance, Whoopie's comment was using meaning 1 and the ADL use was 2. Race is a social distinction and we don't need it. Too many people still believe race is a biological term and it isn't!
AMERICA - USA is a Racist Country and always has been. We are a Melting Pot. We should be all loving each other: regardless of Race, Creed, or Color. But we don't. The only people in the US that are not racist are the Native Americans, but I fear they are becoming like the rest of us. We took their land little by little and then moved them to the Desert. We made Treaties with them and then broke every Treaty. Then we "managed" them with the Bureau of Indian Affairs until the first half of the 20th Century. I was an EEO Counsellor for years. I saw Hispanics being racist toward Blacks, and both being racist toward others. Irish being racist toward Polish and Germans.
Roman Catholics vs. Protestants and Jewish people and vice versa. WASPs (White Anglo Saxon. Protestants) against everything and everybody. I am White, Black, and Native American. My color is Brown, if colors mattered. I had a conversation with my white Texan collage English teacher in 1967 about color and race. I predicted that a thousand years from now we would probably be one color: this was before interracial marriages. She freaked out! "Oh that'll never happen", she said. We're slowly getting there and it's less than 100 years have passed. Says Florida Jimmy.
Great input brown person (as you wish to be identified) though you are wrong AF. I served with all colors as you're so happy to be absorbed with...You clowns (irrespective of color btw) perpetuating this identity politics crap have no idea REAL people could care less about your damn skin color...Bill talks about REAL issues surrounding wealth gaps, etc. & you are so preoccupied about skin color you forget natural truths to elevate you and yours.
You make some good points, Bill, but you're still ignoring the big picture.
Yes, immigrants of color do very well in America. Perhaps better than native-born people of color. But, can't the same be said for whites? How many Irish immigrants and Italian immigrants
entered America during the Nineteenth and Twentieth centuries and did better than whites born on American soil?
While immigrants of color may do well by working at more menial jobs such as roofers, janitors, landscapers, etc., than native-born African-Americans. Those native black Americans, many of whom have ancestry in America which pre-dates most whites, aspire to jobs which are considered "professional" or "white collar." Those jobs have been, and in most cases, still are being denied them as a result of America's systemic racism.
You want to deny that America is systemically and inherently racist, but the vast majority of America whites would disagree with you. Why else have thirty-seven states (Republican-controlled) passed laws which forbid the teaching of certain aspects of history (slavery, Jim Crow, lynchings of blacks, the "Black Wall Street" massacre in Tulsa, Oklahoma, etc. etc. etc, ad infinitum) that may cause whites to feel "uncomfortable?" Why would said whites feel uncomfortable about these subjects if they weren't true? Of course, they are true. Of course the whites in control of the governments of thirty-seven American states know it. They are ashamed of it and embarrassed by it, as well they should be. But, rather than try to make amends for the sins of their past, they attempt to bury the truth by making it illegal for teachers to teach American history and by banning books that tell the truth about American history. You're no better when you tell only part of the truth, Bill.
Good grief. Who is “they” denying non-whites professional jobs & how is it being done system-wide exactly? You are aware of anti-discrimination laws here in the U.S.? Are you referring to CRT-sponsored curriculum regarding this “educational” material not being taught??? Brilliant…teach kids to think of themselves primarily on the basis of their skin color while encouraging a return to segregation. Unbelievable. Dale, the big picture guy…sure, buddy.
Obviously, you know absolutely nothing about discrimination in the workplace. I'm assuming you're white, and you've never experienced it, so how could you? If you did, you'd know that white employers have been skating around those vaunted "anti-discrimination laws" for decades. Let me give you an example . . .
Let's say that five equally-qualified people apply for the same job. Four of them are black. One of them is white. The employer -- who is also white --hires the white person. Logic would imply that racism and discrimination is apparent. The four blacks decide to file a charge of discrimination against the white employer with the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission. Do you know what's going to happen? Their charge will be dismissed. Why? Because, unless the employer SPECIFICALLY stated to all of the blacks, "The reason I'm not hiring you is that you're black," there is no PROOF of discrimination, and the EEOC will dismiss the charge. So, the anti-discrimination laws that whites such as you are so fond of invoking are WORTHLESS! No racist employer is going to be stupid enough to tell a black person, "The reason I'm not giving you a job is that you're black."
Those "anti-discrimination" laws were written with that loophole in them to allow whites to continue to discriminate against blacks . . . which they have done and are doing.
Let's talk about CRT (Critical Race Theory) . . .
Critical Race Theory is nothing but a term used by academics when discussing how racial bias affects various societies. It is NOT an educational policy that the liberals or Democrats or Black Lives Matter is trying to force on school boards around the country. That lie was created by the Republicans (The same "Republicans" who have passed laws in thirty-seven states that make it illegal to teach about slavery, Jim Crow, black lynchings, the "Black Wall Street" race massacre, the Tuskagee experiment where black veterans of WW II who had syphilis were given no treatment for it so that white doctors could observe its progression while white veterans were given penicillin to cure them, etc.) as an excuse to allow them to pass those laws. If they had said, "We want to pass laws that make it illegal to teach the history of how the white man has abused, murdered and enslaved the black man," some people might have had a problem with such blatant revisionist history. But, the good folks at Fox News have been pounding their propaganda drum about "Critical Race Theory" and, now, gullible whites are up in arms and are threatening to murder school board members across the country.
Fall for propaganda much, Dale? You forgot to say Faux News, btw. Here's a tip. Follow other sources besides the benevolent mainstream media and progressive outlets for a better perspective. The truth isn't always what fits your narratives.
I’m not ignoring the truth (maybe “your truth” apparently). I’m just calling out your awfully broad, biased brush painting. Again, which laws allow whites to circumvent anti-discrimination employment law and bar non-whites from professional/white-collar jobs? I’m assuming, as you didn’t address the so-called banned educational material, you were referring to Critical Race Theory? There are plenty of resources out there to get the truth of CRT also…you just have to dig around corporate advocates, censors, etc. I don’t agree with legally banning CRT as those states have done but support the desires to stop the ideological indoctrination of students. I support ACTUAL education. Plenty of honest journalists here on Substack addressing the myriad of mistruths surrounding CRT - it being taught, not taught, curriculum materials, etc. I don’t accept your cult of “Truth”, Disciple Dale.
Yeah...you've toooootallly not only theorized systemic-wide racism but have proven it with your hypothetical. LOL. Well done. I shouldn't even need to bother stating discrimination cases exist, but your straw man example doesn't prove the point you seem to make which is American whites are inherently racist...systematically. I.e. All whites in position of authority deny non-whites while backed by U.S. courts & institutions. Congrats. Same goes for your defense of CRT - trying to prove its merits by pointing out historical atrocities or something which no objective person would refute. Pointless...like conversing with you any further. Good luck managing all that guilt.
You ever hear the saying, "Never assume, because when you assume, you make an ASS of U and ME?" Dave? You should take it to heart.
First off, I never said that ALL whites are inherently racist. YOU said that. Are you admitting something? I said that America and the culture of racism that whites have created in America is inherently racist. If it isn't, then why have thirty-seven states passed laws to prevent the teaching of America's racist past and banned history books which do the same? No one tries to hide the truth if there's no truth to hide. Even you should be able to figure that out.
What about all of the laws that have been passed in Republican-controlled states to suppress the minority (primarily, black) vote? Are you so senseless that you believe it's really about reducing voter fraud? Please!! There have been only a handful (literally less than ten) cases of outright voter fraud from the 2020 election. And, guess what? Every one of them was Republicans voting for Trump, either illegally, or more than once. One guy did a double. He voted for Trump, twice, in two, different, states. If the Republicans are so concerned about voter fraud, why are they after blacks instead of policing their own?
You say that " . . . no objective person" would refute the historical atrocities I pointed out . . . Well, then, I guess the majority of the white residents of the thirty-seven states that have passed laws which outlaw the teaching of those same historical atrocities I pointed out, are not "objective persons."
Oh, and I don't have any guilt to manage. And, my example of employment discrimination isn't "straw man." I'm black, so no white guilt, here. And the example of employment discrimination I gave? That really happened. It's from my own experience.
White America put Obama in the white house twice. I voted for him the first time. You need to educate yourself.Read some Walter Williams or Thomas Soul. Or maybe Larry Elder.
Yes, America put Obama in the white house, twice, but it wasn't because whites voted for him. Some did, yes, but the MAJORITY of the white vote went to McCain in 2008 and Romney in 2012. It was the overwhelming support from black and hispanic voters that got Obama elected. If it had been left to whites, he never would have been.
Actions speak louder than words. Why have thirty-seven states banned teachers from teaching about America's racist past and banned books for the same reason? There's a truth there that most whites fail to acknowledge.
I watched some videos of Walter Williams on Youtube and, from the little I saw, he and I are very, very much aligned in our thinking.
I have NEVER believed in, or been a fan of the Welfare State. I agree with him 100% that welfare, black politicians and the condoning assistance of white liberals have done more damage to blacks than anything else. And, blacks are responsible for the choices they make. I don't accept that racism, bad as it is, FORCES us to make bad decisions. We all face racism, but we don't all end up in prison or with a half-dozen illegitimate kids.
Like Walter's mother, my parents scrimped and saved to give me a good education and I took it upon myself to educate myself further, and submerge myself in culture. I always bought season's tickets to the symphony, I spent fourteen years as a member of a professional Opera company, I love art and Natural History museums, among many other things.
I have been criticized by other blacks, "You ain't no brother!" because I read, write, and listen to Classical music.
I've never been on welfare, nor have my parents. My father was the hardest-working man I ever knew. He worked a full-time job and ran two small businesses at the same time. We lived on a farm and raised our own cattle, hogs and chickens. It was my job to feed and water the hogs and cattle every morning, before I went to school, and every evening when I got home from school. I could go on.
I'm not sure exactly what you think I believe, but I can tell that you're wrong. So, let me tell you . . .
America is the most racist country that has ever existed in the history of the world. Not even South Africa, in the days of apartheid, was as bad as America. While it has been possible for blacks and other non-whites to succeed in America, we must constantly "swim against the current" of white supremacy and white racism. That has always been the case. I could give you countless examples. If you haven't seen the movie "Black Messiah," I urge you to watch it. Just a tiny sample of what we've always had to deal with.
Under the blatant and unapologetically racist "leadership" of Donald Trump, white supremacy and racism across America is on the rise. The January 6, 2021 "insurrection" was, in fact, an attempted coup. Like it or not. Accept it or not. That's what it was. Trump is, in my opinion, a fascist. The media calls him an "authoritarian." I say he's a Nazi. He has aspirations to make himself a dictator and he has the majority of the Republican Party backing him. If he comes to power again in 2024 I fear for what America will become. America is, right now, at the same point where Nazi Germany was in the 1930s. We're balanced on a razor's edge. The tap of a feather, one way, and we remain a democracy. A feather tap in the other direction and we become Nazi Germany all over again and history repeats itself.
I call racism out when I see it, and I see it everywhere. I've experienced it, and fought against it all my life. I don't bury my head in the sand and pretend that it isn't there. Most black "conservatives" do. They think that, by kissing the white man's ass, the whites will love them for it. Clarence Thomas is the most notable example. I'm not that much of a fool.
So, thanks for the suggestion to read some Walter Williams. From what little I've seen of him, I'm betting that our thinking is pretty much aligned. However, if he falls into the "Clarence Thomas" camp, all bets are off.
Amen, Brother. I read early in President Trump's first couple of years that he had a picture of Juan Peron hanging in the Oval Office. I do believe he will go down in history as one of our Famous or Infamous Presidents.
When a Black person talks about his history with racism and discrimination, LISTEN TO HIM! BTW, I am appalled at some of these comments from White people.
Constantine REBRANDED the holy Roman empire and called it the Roman Catholic Church, it was and remains the most brilliant rebranding in history. If you look up the definition of catholic it means "over all". Rome Over All. We've heard uber alas since. It was brilliant, he figured out how to get 10% off the top by promising forgiveness of sin and a place in heaven on ones passing and he did it without the expense of an army.
Often newly landed immigrants will greatly appreciate the opportunity they have here because it is very different from where they were, they are motivated, and because many growing up in America slide into really bad ways of thinking that politicians are too eager to exploit.
The streets in the Land of plenty and Home of the brave are still lined with Gold, IF you are willing to work for it. Immigrants, such as Hispanic tend to live together, pool their resources , and find their niches. Some just gather in neighborhoods with their fellow country people and we end up with Ghettos. Some strive and study English to become Citizens. Others want to make this country like the one they escaped from. Go figure! Just saying! Florida Jimmy.
Dale. You mentioned that when recent immigrants speak to you they are thoroughly disgusted with how racist this country is. Can I ask a question? How many of them returned to their old country? You know because racism is so bad. If racism is as bad as you say they will intern all go home. But yet they stay, and I will tell you why they stay. Because the Nigerian immigrant who makes more than the average white family they are too busy to go to a George Floyd rally. They are too busy working 80 hours a week and trying to put your children through Harvard. They recognize that this truly is a land of opportunity. White black brown or green can succeed. I am still trying to figure out how the white population in America is so bad while we both know the people of color, she’ll other people of color into slavery to this day in Africa. To the white race slavery was a construct of time. Given enough time the white race knew how bad it was. And your people of color do it to this day. Sad. I see you are a man of faith, as am I. In Leviticus one of the many laws God gave to Moses was how to treat your slaves. This country was founded on Judeo Christian values. Today there is a war on Christianity worldwide. If you could, could you talk a little more about why you think people of color are still selling people of color? Whereas the white race today does not sell people. And yet everyone hates the white race. Ironies abound.
Henry Blodgett is Ibrehim X Kendi. You did not mention the fact that we could buy slaves from people of color in Libya. Are you OK with that? I am not.
No, Jeff, I'm not okay with the fact that slavery still exists in certain parts of the world. I'm not okay with the fact that people (including minors) are forced into sexual slavery. I'm not okay with the fact that humanity is destroying the planet and driving hundreds of species into extinction every day . . . There's a LOT that I'm not okay with, but there's nothing I can do about it. If I could, I would, believe me. Humanity is the problem. Always has been. Until people embrace the teachings of Jesus and decide to change their ways the world will continue to descend into chaos and evil will run rampant.
It's not that hard to follow the Golden Rule: "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you." Pretty simple, really. If you wouldn't want someone to steal from you, then don't steal from anyone else. If you wouldn't want to be murdered, then don't murder anyone else. If you wouldn't want to be hated for the color of your skin, then don't hate anyone else for the color of their skin. And, so on, and so on. Apply that to every aspect of life. What's humanity's problem? Why are people so stupid/evil/stubborn? If you have an answer, let me know.
Dale, I hear everything you were saying. I guess I just have to ask, are you a fan of Henry Blodgett? Because if you are a that means you believe in institutionalized racism. If you believe that racism today should be employed because of racism years ago then I guess you and I have to agree to disagree. Of course you know that the white race was the first race in the world to abolish slavery. And you also know that you and I could go to Libya today and buy a slave from people of color. We all know that slavery exist in Africa to this day. The only reason that slavery exists in Africa today is, there are no white men to stop it.
I've never heard of Henry Blodgett, Jeff. And, no, I don't believe that racism should be used, today, to try and reverse racism that took place in the past. That's the hell of it. If you try to help a group that has suffered racism and discrimination, and do something to reverse the effects that racism has had on them, it automatically seems like you're being racist to the group that were the racists in the past.
That was the whole controversy surrounding Affirmative Action. By setting aside places in colleges for blacks, who had historically been denied admission because they WERE black, and admitting them over white students who had higher scores on the ACT and SAT, it had the effect of discriminating against the white kids. Remember the term 'reverse discrimination?"
No one ever intended to harm white students, but how do you help black students without making it seem that way? It's an intractable problem and I don't have the answer. Slavery is one of humanity's greatest sins, and it's effects are going to plague us for generations yet to come.
Arguing about racism is a waste of time. It doesn't lead to more income for anyone. Slavery is a good example. Black people want reparations for an ancestor who may have been a slave in the USA in he past. Who do they want to pay, everyone who is white regardless of where you ancestors were at the time. My ancestors didn't come to the country until after 1860. They didn't fight in the Civil War. Two of them helped found Big Spring, Texas. Others may have been associated with the Chicago Mob. I don't owe anything to Big Spring or the Chicago Mob and neither owe me. It is past time to move forward. At the same time we do need to know both our own past and the entire country.
I want to learn about and try to understand investments. I am not interested in what I consider meaningless arguments about race. As I said earlier, Race as a word in all of its forms is a wasted effort. We have two connotative meaning and both are used interchangeably. If Jews are a race, then so too are all Christians and Muslims. Within the major categories are minor ones. Does it make you feel good to call all Catholics a Race? Why? Or maybe Shite Muslims? Such arguing won't help you make a good buy or sell decision. It also won't help truly in your daily lives.
Bill and company remind me more of my father and his ability to fix things. He would get an idea about something, talk to people who might know more about the topic. He would discover that no one had tried his idea before. He didn't walk away, he build it and it (whatever it was) would work! For the most part, we as a world of people has gone beyond that. How many of us know how to melt iron ore, mix it with other metals to make steel? We don't teach that skill in public school any more!
We have instead entered an era of "don't offend" by telling the truth. It is better to lie and have people feel good. This is the direct consequence of allowing our Presidents to openly lie about anything and everything. Nixon, Clinton, and Trump should have been removed from office after finding them guilty of general lying to the public! We, as a nation, would be better off.
I agree with much of what you say, but if I can enlighten you on a couple of things . . .
I used to be completely against reparations, for the reasons you cite. Then, I listened to a talk by a black historian, who explained the rationale behind the reparations movement.
The historian explained how the effects of slavery benefitted ALL of America. Even whites in the North, who were abolitionists, benefitted from Slavery. One, quick example . . .
If the plantation owners in the South hadn't had enslaved blacks to pick their cotton and tobacco, who WOULD have been doing it? White men. There would have been a huge drain of labor from the North, to work on Southern plantations.
When the Industrial Revolution came to pass, America had that huge labor pool already in place in the North to take advantage of it as huge factories were built, allowing America to become an industrial powerhouse. But, if the majority of those white men had been field hands on Southern plantations, European countries would have become the dominant industrial powers instead of America.
So, perversely, slavery benefitted the entire country, and America's economy blossomed as a result. But, who was cut out of that economic windfall? The black slaves. Then, following Emancipation and the Civil War, blacks continued to be left out of the economic equation as a result of white racism.
And, so, the idea of Reparations was invented. The idea being that whites have reaped all of the economic benefits of slavery, while the people who made those economic benefits POSSIBLE -- the black slaves -- have been intentionally cut out. Even whites, such as yourself, whose ancestors came to America after slavery and the Civil War, have still benefitted from the booming American economy that black slaves made possible. So, it's only fair that American whites who have cashed in from the economy slavery built, should spread some of their wealth back to blacks, because the whites wouldn't have had it, had it not been for the blacks' slave ancestors.
And, before you say it . . . No, those who favor reparations are NOT asking that every black American receive a check for several hundreds-of-thousands-of dollars to "make up for slavery." What we would like to see is investment in black schools and opportunities for blacks to advance themselves. How about building some grocery stores in urban ghetto "food deserts" where the only "fresh food" available comes from 7-11s and gas station refrigerators? What about low-interest business loans for blacks to open their own businesses? These are the kinds of things we'd like to see from reparations -- actions that would help to erase the effects of America's racist history. We're not looking for a big payday, complete with a nice, fat check, signed, "White People."
Re the whole "Jews are white" controversy that Whoopi Goldberg stirred up . . .
No, Jews are NOT a separate race any more than any other religious group. However, the Nazis considered them a separate race, and treated them as such. That's where Goldberg made her mistake. She should have acknowledged that it was the twisted thinking of the Nazis that declared Jews to be a separate race. And, of course, she forgot all about the Ethiopian Jews. Even the Israelis accept them as "Jewish."
As Jan D. Fisher has pointed out in this thread a couple of times, there really is no such thing as "race." It's a social construct. Biologically and genetically, it doesn't exist. Different skin and hair and eye colors exist, along with different facial features, but all humans are the same. We have the same blood types and tissue types and genetics. If you have a Chocolate Labrador Retriever, and a Yellow Labrador Retriever, and a Black Labrador Retriever, are you going to say that they are all different "races" or "breeds" of Labrador Retriever? No, of course not. You're probably going to get dogs of all three colors out of the same litter! Just because their fur is a different color doesn't make them "different" or "better" or "inferior" or "superior!" Dogs realize that. It's time people get as intelligent as their animal friends!
Dale. I appreciate your detailed post. I just don’t understand why people of color flock to America if it is so racist. I appreciate the fact that you were a hard-working taxpayer. I may God bless us all as I fear we will need it soon. Financial collapse plus civil disunity will be a bitter pill to swallow.
First, immigrants of color come to America because they can build such a better life for themselves, here, than where they came from. When it comes down to the nitty-gritty, money trumps everything else.
Secondly, they are coming here without knowing what they are getting into. You must remember that most of those people are coming from societies where everyone is the same color, so there is no racism. There may be tribal animosities, such as the historical hatred between the Tutsis and the Hutu that led to the Rwandan Genocide, but the concept of "racism" is foreign to many of them. Having known many immigrants from Africa, I can tell you that they are surprised, shocked, and horrified when they arrive in America and are confronted with racism for the first time.
My last comment on racism. I believe the Federal Government started this matter of Race. In 1955 I was working at a Naval Shipyard. One day they passed out IBM Cards and told us to identify our race by punching out the correct rectangle. The categories were: Caucasian, Negro, Asian, Spanish, and Native American. Now days when you apply for Government and I suppose Corporation positions. You have a place to record the information (Optional of course). The current form goes like this, from my memory so it may not be exact, White/Caucasian, Black/African American, Alaska/Native American, Pacific Islands, Asian, and something else. I don't think there is a European, Middle Eastern, etc. There is a separate category: Hispanic Y or N. So bottom line; who cares. The Government does for some reason. They collect it and store it. Maybe they are collecting it for the little green people in UFO's. LOL. All I am trying to say is keeps Racism going. That is my story and I am sticking to it. Just saying! Florida Jimmy.
We need to stop using the word "RACE" and all of its forms because it has two popular connotations: 1. Skin Color; and 2. Extended Tribe! For Instance, Whoopie's comment was using meaning 1 and the ADL use was 2. Race is a social distinction and we don't need it. Too many people still believe race is a biological term and it isn't!
Brilliant.
AMERICA - USA is a Racist Country and always has been. We are a Melting Pot. We should be all loving each other: regardless of Race, Creed, or Color. But we don't. The only people in the US that are not racist are the Native Americans, but I fear they are becoming like the rest of us. We took their land little by little and then moved them to the Desert. We made Treaties with them and then broke every Treaty. Then we "managed" them with the Bureau of Indian Affairs until the first half of the 20th Century. I was an EEO Counsellor for years. I saw Hispanics being racist toward Blacks, and both being racist toward others. Irish being racist toward Polish and Germans.
Roman Catholics vs. Protestants and Jewish people and vice versa. WASPs (White Anglo Saxon. Protestants) against everything and everybody. I am White, Black, and Native American. My color is Brown, if colors mattered. I had a conversation with my white Texan collage English teacher in 1967 about color and race. I predicted that a thousand years from now we would probably be one color: this was before interracial marriages. She freaked out! "Oh that'll never happen", she said. We're slowly getting there and it's less than 100 years have passed. Says Florida Jimmy.
Great input brown person (as you wish to be identified) though you are wrong AF. I served with all colors as you're so happy to be absorbed with...You clowns (irrespective of color btw) perpetuating this identity politics crap have no idea REAL people could care less about your damn skin color...Bill talks about REAL issues surrounding wealth gaps, etc. & you are so preoccupied about skin color you forget natural truths to elevate you and yours.
Oh...and F your politics since Ike...ridiculous. Politics got us into this crap.
You make some good points, Bill, but you're still ignoring the big picture.
Yes, immigrants of color do very well in America. Perhaps better than native-born people of color. But, can't the same be said for whites? How many Irish immigrants and Italian immigrants
entered America during the Nineteenth and Twentieth centuries and did better than whites born on American soil?
While immigrants of color may do well by working at more menial jobs such as roofers, janitors, landscapers, etc., than native-born African-Americans. Those native black Americans, many of whom have ancestry in America which pre-dates most whites, aspire to jobs which are considered "professional" or "white collar." Those jobs have been, and in most cases, still are being denied them as a result of America's systemic racism.
You want to deny that America is systemically and inherently racist, but the vast majority of America whites would disagree with you. Why else have thirty-seven states (Republican-controlled) passed laws which forbid the teaching of certain aspects of history (slavery, Jim Crow, lynchings of blacks, the "Black Wall Street" massacre in Tulsa, Oklahoma, etc. etc. etc, ad infinitum) that may cause whites to feel "uncomfortable?" Why would said whites feel uncomfortable about these subjects if they weren't true? Of course, they are true. Of course the whites in control of the governments of thirty-seven American states know it. They are ashamed of it and embarrassed by it, as well they should be. But, rather than try to make amends for the sins of their past, they attempt to bury the truth by making it illegal for teachers to teach American history and by banning books that tell the truth about American history. You're no better when you tell only part of the truth, Bill.
Good grief. Who is “they” denying non-whites professional jobs & how is it being done system-wide exactly? You are aware of anti-discrimination laws here in the U.S.? Are you referring to CRT-sponsored curriculum regarding this “educational” material not being taught??? Brilliant…teach kids to think of themselves primarily on the basis of their skin color while encouraging a return to segregation. Unbelievable. Dale, the big picture guy…sure, buddy.
Believe what you want to believe, Dave. Ignore the truth as you wish. I won't argue with you.
you won't argue because you don't have a leg to stand on.
Okay. Have it your way.
Obviously, you know absolutely nothing about discrimination in the workplace. I'm assuming you're white, and you've never experienced it, so how could you? If you did, you'd know that white employers have been skating around those vaunted "anti-discrimination laws" for decades. Let me give you an example . . .
Let's say that five equally-qualified people apply for the same job. Four of them are black. One of them is white. The employer -- who is also white --hires the white person. Logic would imply that racism and discrimination is apparent. The four blacks decide to file a charge of discrimination against the white employer with the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission. Do you know what's going to happen? Their charge will be dismissed. Why? Because, unless the employer SPECIFICALLY stated to all of the blacks, "The reason I'm not hiring you is that you're black," there is no PROOF of discrimination, and the EEOC will dismiss the charge. So, the anti-discrimination laws that whites such as you are so fond of invoking are WORTHLESS! No racist employer is going to be stupid enough to tell a black person, "The reason I'm not giving you a job is that you're black."
Those "anti-discrimination" laws were written with that loophole in them to allow whites to continue to discriminate against blacks . . . which they have done and are doing.
Let's talk about CRT (Critical Race Theory) . . .
Critical Race Theory is nothing but a term used by academics when discussing how racial bias affects various societies. It is NOT an educational policy that the liberals or Democrats or Black Lives Matter is trying to force on school boards around the country. That lie was created by the Republicans (The same "Republicans" who have passed laws in thirty-seven states that make it illegal to teach about slavery, Jim Crow, black lynchings, the "Black Wall Street" race massacre, the Tuskagee experiment where black veterans of WW II who had syphilis were given no treatment for it so that white doctors could observe its progression while white veterans were given penicillin to cure them, etc.) as an excuse to allow them to pass those laws. If they had said, "We want to pass laws that make it illegal to teach the history of how the white man has abused, murdered and enslaved the black man," some people might have had a problem with such blatant revisionist history. But, the good folks at Fox News have been pounding their propaganda drum about "Critical Race Theory" and, now, gullible whites are up in arms and are threatening to murder school board members across the country.
Satisfied, Carter?
Fall for propaganda much, Dale? You forgot to say Faux News, btw. Here's a tip. Follow other sources besides the benevolent mainstream media and progressive outlets for a better perspective. The truth isn't always what fits your narratives.
I’m not ignoring the truth (maybe “your truth” apparently). I’m just calling out your awfully broad, biased brush painting. Again, which laws allow whites to circumvent anti-discrimination employment law and bar non-whites from professional/white-collar jobs? I’m assuming, as you didn’t address the so-called banned educational material, you were referring to Critical Race Theory? There are plenty of resources out there to get the truth of CRT also…you just have to dig around corporate advocates, censors, etc. I don’t agree with legally banning CRT as those states have done but support the desires to stop the ideological indoctrination of students. I support ACTUAL education. Plenty of honest journalists here on Substack addressing the myriad of mistruths surrounding CRT - it being taught, not taught, curriculum materials, etc. I don’t accept your cult of “Truth”, Disciple Dale.
David, please read my reply to Carter which appears above yours. I'm not going to repeat myself.
Yeah...you've toooootallly not only theorized systemic-wide racism but have proven it with your hypothetical. LOL. Well done. I shouldn't even need to bother stating discrimination cases exist, but your straw man example doesn't prove the point you seem to make which is American whites are inherently racist...systematically. I.e. All whites in position of authority deny non-whites while backed by U.S. courts & institutions. Congrats. Same goes for your defense of CRT - trying to prove its merits by pointing out historical atrocities or something which no objective person would refute. Pointless...like conversing with you any further. Good luck managing all that guilt.
You ever hear the saying, "Never assume, because when you assume, you make an ASS of U and ME?" Dave? You should take it to heart.
First off, I never said that ALL whites are inherently racist. YOU said that. Are you admitting something? I said that America and the culture of racism that whites have created in America is inherently racist. If it isn't, then why have thirty-seven states passed laws to prevent the teaching of America's racist past and banned history books which do the same? No one tries to hide the truth if there's no truth to hide. Even you should be able to figure that out.
What about all of the laws that have been passed in Republican-controlled states to suppress the minority (primarily, black) vote? Are you so senseless that you believe it's really about reducing voter fraud? Please!! There have been only a handful (literally less than ten) cases of outright voter fraud from the 2020 election. And, guess what? Every one of them was Republicans voting for Trump, either illegally, or more than once. One guy did a double. He voted for Trump, twice, in two, different, states. If the Republicans are so concerned about voter fraud, why are they after blacks instead of policing their own?
You say that " . . . no objective person" would refute the historical atrocities I pointed out . . . Well, then, I guess the majority of the white residents of the thirty-seven states that have passed laws which outlaw the teaching of those same historical atrocities I pointed out, are not "objective persons."
Oh, and I don't have any guilt to manage. And, my example of employment discrimination isn't "straw man." I'm black, so no white guilt, here. And the example of employment discrimination I gave? That really happened. It's from my own experience.
Never ASS U ME.
White America put Obama in the white house twice. I voted for him the first time. You need to educate yourself.Read some Walter Williams or Thomas Soul. Or maybe Larry Elder.
Yes, America put Obama in the white house, twice, but it wasn't because whites voted for him. Some did, yes, but the MAJORITY of the white vote went to McCain in 2008 and Romney in 2012. It was the overwhelming support from black and hispanic voters that got Obama elected. If it had been left to whites, he never would have been.
Actions speak louder than words. Why have thirty-seven states banned teachers from teaching about America's racist past and banned books for the same reason? There's a truth there that most whites fail to acknowledge.
Angry much Dale??
Please read some Walter Williams. Please.
Jeff
I watched some videos of Walter Williams on Youtube and, from the little I saw, he and I are very, very much aligned in our thinking.
I have NEVER believed in, or been a fan of the Welfare State. I agree with him 100% that welfare, black politicians and the condoning assistance of white liberals have done more damage to blacks than anything else. And, blacks are responsible for the choices they make. I don't accept that racism, bad as it is, FORCES us to make bad decisions. We all face racism, but we don't all end up in prison or with a half-dozen illegitimate kids.
Like Walter's mother, my parents scrimped and saved to give me a good education and I took it upon myself to educate myself further, and submerge myself in culture. I always bought season's tickets to the symphony, I spent fourteen years as a member of a professional Opera company, I love art and Natural History museums, among many other things.
I have been criticized by other blacks, "You ain't no brother!" because I read, write, and listen to Classical music.
I've never been on welfare, nor have my parents. My father was the hardest-working man I ever knew. He worked a full-time job and ran two small businesses at the same time. We lived on a farm and raised our own cattle, hogs and chickens. It was my job to feed and water the hogs and cattle every morning, before I went to school, and every evening when I got home from school. I could go on.
I'm not sure exactly what you think I believe, but I can tell that you're wrong. So, let me tell you . . .
America is the most racist country that has ever existed in the history of the world. Not even South Africa, in the days of apartheid, was as bad as America. While it has been possible for blacks and other non-whites to succeed in America, we must constantly "swim against the current" of white supremacy and white racism. That has always been the case. I could give you countless examples. If you haven't seen the movie "Black Messiah," I urge you to watch it. Just a tiny sample of what we've always had to deal with.
Under the blatant and unapologetically racist "leadership" of Donald Trump, white supremacy and racism across America is on the rise. The January 6, 2021 "insurrection" was, in fact, an attempted coup. Like it or not. Accept it or not. That's what it was. Trump is, in my opinion, a fascist. The media calls him an "authoritarian." I say he's a Nazi. He has aspirations to make himself a dictator and he has the majority of the Republican Party backing him. If he comes to power again in 2024 I fear for what America will become. America is, right now, at the same point where Nazi Germany was in the 1930s. We're balanced on a razor's edge. The tap of a feather, one way, and we remain a democracy. A feather tap in the other direction and we become Nazi Germany all over again and history repeats itself.
I call racism out when I see it, and I see it everywhere. I've experienced it, and fought against it all my life. I don't bury my head in the sand and pretend that it isn't there. Most black "conservatives" do. They think that, by kissing the white man's ass, the whites will love them for it. Clarence Thomas is the most notable example. I'm not that much of a fool.
So, thanks for the suggestion to read some Walter Williams. From what little I've seen of him, I'm betting that our thinking is pretty much aligned. However, if he falls into the "Clarence Thomas" camp, all bets are off.
Amen, Brother. I read early in President Trump's first couple of years that he had a picture of Juan Peron hanging in the Oval Office. I do believe he will go down in history as one of our Famous or Infamous Presidents.
Just saying, Florida Jimmy.
When a Black person talks about his history with racism and discrimination, LISTEN TO HIM! BTW, I am appalled at some of these comments from White people.
Share some links, please. Don’t pontificate without the facts to back up your position.
Also, I work in corporate America and am happy to report the environment for increased diversity & inclusion has never been stronger.
with ideas like yours's dale, i believe you are more a part of the problem than the solution!
See my reply to Carter, above.
Constantine REBRANDED the holy Roman empire and called it the Roman Catholic Church, it was and remains the most brilliant rebranding in history. If you look up the definition of catholic it means "over all". Rome Over All. We've heard uber alas since. It was brilliant, he figured out how to get 10% off the top by promising forgiveness of sin and a place in heaven on ones passing and he did it without the expense of an army.
Often newly landed immigrants will greatly appreciate the opportunity they have here because it is very different from where they were, they are motivated, and because many growing up in America slide into really bad ways of thinking that politicians are too eager to exploit.
The streets in the Land of plenty and Home of the brave are still lined with Gold, IF you are willing to work for it. Immigrants, such as Hispanic tend to live together, pool their resources , and find their niches. Some just gather in neighborhoods with their fellow country people and we end up with Ghettos. Some strive and study English to become Citizens. Others want to make this country like the one they escaped from. Go figure! Just saying! Florida Jimmy.
Absolutely informative. Thank you. Cannot afford to upgrade ( senior) but so enjoy comments
Dale. You mentioned that when recent immigrants speak to you they are thoroughly disgusted with how racist this country is. Can I ask a question? How many of them returned to their old country? You know because racism is so bad. If racism is as bad as you say they will intern all go home. But yet they stay, and I will tell you why they stay. Because the Nigerian immigrant who makes more than the average white family they are too busy to go to a George Floyd rally. They are too busy working 80 hours a week and trying to put your children through Harvard. They recognize that this truly is a land of opportunity. White black brown or green can succeed. I am still trying to figure out how the white population in America is so bad while we both know the people of color, she’ll other people of color into slavery to this day in Africa. To the white race slavery was a construct of time. Given enough time the white race knew how bad it was. And your people of color do it to this day. Sad. I see you are a man of faith, as am I. In Leviticus one of the many laws God gave to Moses was how to treat your slaves. This country was founded on Judeo Christian values. Today there is a war on Christianity worldwide. If you could, could you talk a little more about why you think people of color are still selling people of color? Whereas the white race today does not sell people. And yet everyone hates the white race. Ironies abound.
Henry Blodgett is Ibrehim X Kendi. You did not mention the fact that we could buy slaves from people of color in Libya. Are you OK with that? I am not.
No, Jeff, I'm not okay with the fact that slavery still exists in certain parts of the world. I'm not okay with the fact that people (including minors) are forced into sexual slavery. I'm not okay with the fact that humanity is destroying the planet and driving hundreds of species into extinction every day . . . There's a LOT that I'm not okay with, but there's nothing I can do about it. If I could, I would, believe me. Humanity is the problem. Always has been. Until people embrace the teachings of Jesus and decide to change their ways the world will continue to descend into chaos and evil will run rampant.
It's not that hard to follow the Golden Rule: "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you." Pretty simple, really. If you wouldn't want someone to steal from you, then don't steal from anyone else. If you wouldn't want to be murdered, then don't murder anyone else. If you wouldn't want to be hated for the color of your skin, then don't hate anyone else for the color of their skin. And, so on, and so on. Apply that to every aspect of life. What's humanity's problem? Why are people so stupid/evil/stubborn? If you have an answer, let me know.
Dale, I hear everything you were saying. I guess I just have to ask, are you a fan of Henry Blodgett? Because if you are a that means you believe in institutionalized racism. If you believe that racism today should be employed because of racism years ago then I guess you and I have to agree to disagree. Of course you know that the white race was the first race in the world to abolish slavery. And you also know that you and I could go to Libya today and buy a slave from people of color. We all know that slavery exist in Africa to this day. The only reason that slavery exists in Africa today is, there are no white men to stop it.
I've never heard of Henry Blodgett, Jeff. And, no, I don't believe that racism should be used, today, to try and reverse racism that took place in the past. That's the hell of it. If you try to help a group that has suffered racism and discrimination, and do something to reverse the effects that racism has had on them, it automatically seems like you're being racist to the group that were the racists in the past.
That was the whole controversy surrounding Affirmative Action. By setting aside places in colleges for blacks, who had historically been denied admission because they WERE black, and admitting them over white students who had higher scores on the ACT and SAT, it had the effect of discriminating against the white kids. Remember the term 'reverse discrimination?"
No one ever intended to harm white students, but how do you help black students without making it seem that way? It's an intractable problem and I don't have the answer. Slavery is one of humanity's greatest sins, and it's effects are going to plague us for generations yet to come.
Arguing about racism is a waste of time. It doesn't lead to more income for anyone. Slavery is a good example. Black people want reparations for an ancestor who may have been a slave in the USA in he past. Who do they want to pay, everyone who is white regardless of where you ancestors were at the time. My ancestors didn't come to the country until after 1860. They didn't fight in the Civil War. Two of them helped found Big Spring, Texas. Others may have been associated with the Chicago Mob. I don't owe anything to Big Spring or the Chicago Mob and neither owe me. It is past time to move forward. At the same time we do need to know both our own past and the entire country.
I want to learn about and try to understand investments. I am not interested in what I consider meaningless arguments about race. As I said earlier, Race as a word in all of its forms is a wasted effort. We have two connotative meaning and both are used interchangeably. If Jews are a race, then so too are all Christians and Muslims. Within the major categories are minor ones. Does it make you feel good to call all Catholics a Race? Why? Or maybe Shite Muslims? Such arguing won't help you make a good buy or sell decision. It also won't help truly in your daily lives.
Bill and company remind me more of my father and his ability to fix things. He would get an idea about something, talk to people who might know more about the topic. He would discover that no one had tried his idea before. He didn't walk away, he build it and it (whatever it was) would work! For the most part, we as a world of people has gone beyond that. How many of us know how to melt iron ore, mix it with other metals to make steel? We don't teach that skill in public school any more!
We have instead entered an era of "don't offend" by telling the truth. It is better to lie and have people feel good. This is the direct consequence of allowing our Presidents to openly lie about anything and everything. Nixon, Clinton, and Trump should have been removed from office after finding them guilty of general lying to the public! We, as a nation, would be better off.
Jan
I agree with much of what you say, but if I can enlighten you on a couple of things . . .
I used to be completely against reparations, for the reasons you cite. Then, I listened to a talk by a black historian, who explained the rationale behind the reparations movement.
The historian explained how the effects of slavery benefitted ALL of America. Even whites in the North, who were abolitionists, benefitted from Slavery. One, quick example . . .
If the plantation owners in the South hadn't had enslaved blacks to pick their cotton and tobacco, who WOULD have been doing it? White men. There would have been a huge drain of labor from the North, to work on Southern plantations.
When the Industrial Revolution came to pass, America had that huge labor pool already in place in the North to take advantage of it as huge factories were built, allowing America to become an industrial powerhouse. But, if the majority of those white men had been field hands on Southern plantations, European countries would have become the dominant industrial powers instead of America.
So, perversely, slavery benefitted the entire country, and America's economy blossomed as a result. But, who was cut out of that economic windfall? The black slaves. Then, following Emancipation and the Civil War, blacks continued to be left out of the economic equation as a result of white racism.
And, so, the idea of Reparations was invented. The idea being that whites have reaped all of the economic benefits of slavery, while the people who made those economic benefits POSSIBLE -- the black slaves -- have been intentionally cut out. Even whites, such as yourself, whose ancestors came to America after slavery and the Civil War, have still benefitted from the booming American economy that black slaves made possible. So, it's only fair that American whites who have cashed in from the economy slavery built, should spread some of their wealth back to blacks, because the whites wouldn't have had it, had it not been for the blacks' slave ancestors.
And, before you say it . . . No, those who favor reparations are NOT asking that every black American receive a check for several hundreds-of-thousands-of dollars to "make up for slavery." What we would like to see is investment in black schools and opportunities for blacks to advance themselves. How about building some grocery stores in urban ghetto "food deserts" where the only "fresh food" available comes from 7-11s and gas station refrigerators? What about low-interest business loans for blacks to open their own businesses? These are the kinds of things we'd like to see from reparations -- actions that would help to erase the effects of America's racist history. We're not looking for a big payday, complete with a nice, fat check, signed, "White People."
Re the whole "Jews are white" controversy that Whoopi Goldberg stirred up . . .
No, Jews are NOT a separate race any more than any other religious group. However, the Nazis considered them a separate race, and treated them as such. That's where Goldberg made her mistake. She should have acknowledged that it was the twisted thinking of the Nazis that declared Jews to be a separate race. And, of course, she forgot all about the Ethiopian Jews. Even the Israelis accept them as "Jewish."
As Jan D. Fisher has pointed out in this thread a couple of times, there really is no such thing as "race." It's a social construct. Biologically and genetically, it doesn't exist. Different skin and hair and eye colors exist, along with different facial features, but all humans are the same. We have the same blood types and tissue types and genetics. If you have a Chocolate Labrador Retriever, and a Yellow Labrador Retriever, and a Black Labrador Retriever, are you going to say that they are all different "races" or "breeds" of Labrador Retriever? No, of course not. You're probably going to get dogs of all three colors out of the same litter! Just because their fur is a different color doesn't make them "different" or "better" or "inferior" or "superior!" Dogs realize that. It's time people get as intelligent as their animal friends!
Dale. I appreciate your detailed post. I just don’t understand why people of color flock to America if it is so racist. I appreciate the fact that you were a hard-working taxpayer. I may God bless us all as I fear we will need it soon. Financial collapse plus civil disunity will be a bitter pill to swallow.
There are two answers to your question, Jeff.
First, immigrants of color come to America because they can build such a better life for themselves, here, than where they came from. When it comes down to the nitty-gritty, money trumps everything else.
Secondly, they are coming here without knowing what they are getting into. You must remember that most of those people are coming from societies where everyone is the same color, so there is no racism. There may be tribal animosities, such as the historical hatred between the Tutsis and the Hutu that led to the Rwandan Genocide, but the concept of "racism" is foreign to many of them. Having known many immigrants from Africa, I can tell you that they are surprised, shocked, and horrified when they arrive in America and are confronted with racism for the first time.
My last comment on racism. I believe the Federal Government started this matter of Race. In 1955 I was working at a Naval Shipyard. One day they passed out IBM Cards and told us to identify our race by punching out the correct rectangle. The categories were: Caucasian, Negro, Asian, Spanish, and Native American. Now days when you apply for Government and I suppose Corporation positions. You have a place to record the information (Optional of course). The current form goes like this, from my memory so it may not be exact, White/Caucasian, Black/African American, Alaska/Native American, Pacific Islands, Asian, and something else. I don't think there is a European, Middle Eastern, etc. There is a separate category: Hispanic Y or N. So bottom line; who cares. The Government does for some reason. They collect it and store it. Maybe they are collecting it for the little green people in UFO's. LOL. All I am trying to say is keeps Racism going. That is my story and I am sticking to it. Just saying! Florida Jimmy.
According to Wikipedia, modern orthodox Jewish households make $$158,000, while open orthodox Jewish households make $185,000.
We need to look at Canada. Are we getting a preview? Is democracy all that dies? Only racists call other people racists. Don the Tiger