The US seems to be split into two camps — each viciously opposed to the other. There are those who love the Big Man, almost no matter what he says or does. And there are those who despise him.
Well written Billy, If only things were that black and white. You seem to suggest events are either with no gray which just is not the case. Personally, I think DJT has become a buffoon, yet, he is doing exactly what needs to be done. For decades, the world has dropped their ass on us. Without a punch back. What did that get us:
* 20 MM illegals
* massive import of drugs
*drained SPR
*weak military
*Democrats articulate in name calling and blatant lying
*Schumer 5 years ago bitching TRump is doing nothing to remove Maduro, 2025 bitching he took him out
* Cops being faulted for enforcing laws that they themselves (Dems) put on the books
When do they get back to governing the country as opposed to faulting everything he does, Today they would fault him if he indeed found a cure for cancer. It’s quite enough.
Should Trump shut his mouth more, absolutely, Should the DEMS and there useless leader do the same, for sure. I think the previous commentator is dead on. There is a group of us whom feel the alternative is worst. Could you imagine if Kamala got in? All of the asterisks above, and more would be amplified to the detriment of everyday Americans.
Look what happened in NJ - Sherrill wins on an affordability platform. What is the first thing she does? Raise the state sales tax, raise the state income tax - who is shitting who? This is why Trump won, at least the man does what he says he will do, despite all the bluster. Everything he has/is done/doing was his pre-elected platform.
Sorry you have TDS, but it is time make use of the tools God has given us, as opposed to letting them decay/rot/sit idle.
Agreed, but a little pushback on "Trump is a buffoon" comment. Trump seems to have two different personalities as you allude to. One is buffoonish, the other is all business. You might not agree with all the things he wants to do, but he is very serious about getting things done.
How about some constructive comments about all of those suffering from TDS.
I live in the Twin Cities (born in 1948 and a Vietnam Vet) and actually have relatives that suffer from TDS. I refuse to associate with them anymore - they are not thinking clearly, some are either on drugs, unemployed because they refuse to do anything that can't be done on a cell phone or computer, sucking the system for every possible benefit they can get for nothing, etc., etc.
I personally believe that most of what you are seeing is fear that the "suck" is coming to an end.
They are the reason that this country is in the position it is in. You cannot support this volume of society and its suck. They are the reason we are going to go under eventually.
Give them constructive jobs - like picking up trash on the highways before paying them to do nothing.
Some comments about how they cannot support ICE and the removal of illegal migrants, and especially those who already have violent track records would be helpful.
How about some bashing of those actually paying these folks to create havoc and call for them to cut off the funding (more free stuff) in every major city.
I am too old to consider moving out of the country but have suggested it to younger folks close to me. My current thought is "Thank God that I probably only have a few years left to enjoy this current less than wonderful country".
It is sad that many of my friends feel the same disappointment. We’re waiting it out, being grateful that there is something left for which to be grateful.
"The US seems to be split into two camps — each viciously opposed to the other. There are those who love the Big Man, almost no matter what he says or does. And there are those who despise him, again almost no matter what he says or does."
It seems to me that there is at least one more camp. A camp that finds much of what Trump does and says as bizarre, yet still prefers him to the alternatives we've been offered. What astounds me about the far left (which seems to control the democatic party) is that it never seems to occur to them that they can win by dropping their most extreme positions.
The again, maybe it's just like pro wrestling, and the only real concern is audience engagement.
Gas under 2 bucks, inflation down to under 3 %, gdp over 5% taxes at their lowest in decades. Maduro gone from Venezuela. Border secure. Illegal felon, rapist, murderers,pedophiles and gang bangers gone. Trillions of dollar investments into America. Wages going up and most prices stationary. People with ira’s and retirement plans accumulating wealth. What the hell’s not to like. He isnt the perfect man but neither are you Bill. I for one am liking what I see.
Maybe you missed the fact that the pedos who were caught up in the Epstein blackmail operation are still out there, except the government won't reveal their names or investigate who was behind the honey pot operation.
You stated the pedos were gone. I thought I missed a news story that all those pedos involved in the Epstein blackmail operation had been arrested. I guess you may have been talking about other pedos?
BOB, You have most of it right but I'm worried it's all nothing but a smoke screen to cover up the demise of the American system...the US will continue to exist into the future but not under the same freedoms and conditions that we all Americans are use to.
Mark, your right and we all know this can only end badly. Buying gold and silver is the only saftey net I see but somewhere down the road is the reckoning.
There is a third camp: the middle. They have been rendered mute/ineffective by the extremes of both parties and the money that invests in those extremes. The middle needs to get back in the game…not sure how that happens given the polarity in the country. Perhaps as the pendulum, which swung right in opposition to wokeness and ineptness, will hit the middle before it proceeds to “the warmth of collectivism” (God help us).
Per Gallup as reported today in John Ellis’ excellent Substack: “A record-high 45% of U.S. adults identified as political independents in 2025, surpassing the 43% measured in 2014, 2023 and 2024. Meanwhile, equal shares of U.S. adults — 27% each — identified as either Democrats or Republicans”
Ol' Smithy I so wish you were right. Unfortunately, this ol' man sees the only thing lying ahead is a crash of epic portions. The right/left or conservative/liberal or peace/war or whatever else separates us Americans so dramatically can only be undone by a complete and utter collapse. And, as the World continues to turn away from the U.S. and find alternate paths, the U.S. loses. We need the products of other countries - the U.S. is far, far from being self-sufficient and sanctions, tariffs, nor threats of war encourage others to trade with us. Currently, the only thing keeping America afloat is the amount of US$ floating around the world but this is losing its attraction and power. As for wars, the U.S. is good for maybe two (2) weeks then logistics fail. I don't see any way out but a complete collapse. Again, an ol' man muttering...........
I find myself in that "Middle" group. I voted against Kamala Harris and the wokness the democrats were continuing to hawk in the election process. My hopes were a Trump likeness to Argentinas Mila but seems like we got a Trump full of bloviation and full of himself. My brother in law told me that while Trump was building the Atlantic city Trump casino which I think was in the 80's Trump stiffed a lot of little guy contractors out of money for work the did on completing the casino. A lot of local contractors were never paid for labor and materials they provided under contract.. bankruptcy had been Trump's best business partner over the years. If the democrats would have run someone better my vote may have gone that way. Trump was just the least of two evils at the time but has shown his colors in his actions. I think of myself as an independent thinker and voter and with what's on both sides of the isle I don't care for either side. Off to Costa Rica I go.
And independents rarely win - just no base and no corporate backing. As radical as the political leans are it is hard to see how this ends without a disaster.
Trust me on this, Tom - I don't want to be right either. I am rapidly approaching my ninth decade and don't need what lies ahead. I think for us ol' folks is going to be horrific. I just don't see any other way.
Ol' Man...You still holding on to your prediction of economic calamity by the end of this year?
On Jan 2nd you wrote: "...believing the media and a delusional narcissist like Trump has a clue of how to help America gets its house in order is just so sad. Hope you have a Great 2026! By the mid-term, it is going to be horrific" (from your post above, clearly "horrific" is your preferred word)
I agree wholeheartedly that the Fed and Powell should have been investigated during Trump's first term, especially when they cut interest rates to 0% to .25% on 3/15/2020. That and massive money printing helped set the stage for more future inflation. The Fed's suppression of interest rates is helping to destroy the moral fiber of the US, disincentiving saving, encouraging reckless spending and creating bubbles that essentially benefit the wealthy classes.
Absolutely. The problem is (well there are many as you point out so I’ll just name one) that Congress doesn’t do their job, because they have zero incentive to reign in the FED. The FEDs Statuatory mandate is stable prices. Translated to language a Normie could understand, that means zero. Congress has never forced them to follow the law.
And if course, why would they. Via insider trading and other mechanisms they also benefit from the Cantillon effect of the FEDs lose money policies.
I always enjoy your missives and respect your point of view. What the last 4 years under Biden did to this country is a game changer, teat it down let the fourth turning be a significant redirection of the country. The millennials and Z’s will either platform this political change or go in a socialist direction. Financial competence in refurbishing the building should fall on the Fed. They shouldn’t be oblivious to basic spending of taxpayer money.
The most important for me is the immigration issue at hand. Living in South Texas for the last 20 years has made me (most recently) very sympathetic to immigrants who have been productive and great citizens. Trump’s policies need to be very specific as to who he is trying to remove from this country because the MSM WILL NOT report the truth.
Another dumpster dive from Bongo Bill. He laments about drug smugglers "especially when they cling helplessly to the wreckage of their boat" as if the first strike wasn't meant to kill them. But I can understand the concern on Bongo Bill's part as he clings helplessly to any coherent rational thought process he might still have! He sets up the strawman that the populace is divided into irrational anti-Trump and pro-Trump camps, while he is firmly in the center as an honest, impartial observer. What a crock. There are enough distortions and half-truths in his column to warrant several paragraphs of rebuttal at a minimum. But I don't have that much time to waste.
While diving in tbe dumpster please do some research into Trump's pardon of ex Honduran president Hernández who had been convicted for moving over 400 tons of cocaine into the US. Trump says it was a Biden politically motivated prosecution. However, the prosecution was ongoing during the first Trump term and here's a little something from Univsion 8/19/2019 -"Honduran President Juan Orlando Hernández was identified Friday as a co-conspirator in a drug trafficking and money laundering case against his brother, according to document filed in U.S. district court."
So while some people may celebrate the killings of small time suspected drug smugglers a big time trafficker was given his freedom. In fact retired DEA Mike Vigil said Hernández was bigger than Pablo Escobar and El Chapo.
Yes, Cartero, I will stop everything I'm doing and do some research just for you! We all know you're a Trump hater and, like Bongo Bill, will focus only on the negative when it comes to Trump and present info that is one-sided and most likely out of context. By the way, it is not a matter of "celebrating" the killings of the drug smugglers. These people are part of a drug network that kills people.
Sorry. I replied down below. Basically why dodge the question by attributing it to a Trump hater taking things out of context. The facts are the facts - Donnie pardoned a big time drug trafficker and the document was filed in a US District Court during the first Trump administration. But just for your info, I'm not on either team and I think all four presidents this century were mediocre corrupt lying politicians. The scum rises to the top. At least I didn't change my opinion of Trump like JD Vance did. Check this out -Vance stated he went "back and forth between thinking Trump is a cynical asshole like Nixon... or that he’s America’s Hitler".
BB you are so full of crap I don’t know how your brain functions. Your anti-Trump and anti-Israel rhetoric is well documented. My feeling is that the Federal reserve should be closed. They function as a department to protect the banking system. Interest rates should be a functioning of the free market. Other wasteful departments include the dept of energy and dept of education among others. You also say nothing about Trump helping the Iranians; much more than Obama did during his administration. This uprising in Iran could change the complete Middle East; it could result in less terrorism throughout the world which is sponsored by the Ayatollah Iranian regime. Take a strong laxative; maybe you will be able to think clearer.
Abe, as I recall from a little history that the federal reserve was set up by bankers . Not You and Me and the USA government gave its blessings. May be wrong as My memory does seem to fade over time.
My 1 year rate of return is 88%. With 40% cash at 12% it would likely be 60%…no I didn’t do the math, but 60% is close. What’s your 1 year rate of return?
Maybe it's time to join the "Vote for Nobody" party. Nobody will listen to you! Nobody will reduce the national debt! Nobody will investigate the Epstein blackmail operation!
Well written Billy, If only things were that black and white. You seem to suggest events are either with no gray which just is not the case. Personally, I think DJT has become a buffoon, yet, he is doing exactly what needs to be done. For decades, the world has dropped their ass on us. Without a punch back. What did that get us:
* 20 MM illegals
* massive import of drugs
*drained SPR
*weak military
*Democrats articulate in name calling and blatant lying
*Schumer 5 years ago bitching TRump is doing nothing to remove Maduro, 2025 bitching he took him out
* Cops being faulted for enforcing laws that they themselves (Dems) put on the books
When do they get back to governing the country as opposed to faulting everything he does, Today they would fault him if he indeed found a cure for cancer. It’s quite enough.
Should Trump shut his mouth more, absolutely, Should the DEMS and there useless leader do the same, for sure. I think the previous commentator is dead on. There is a group of us whom feel the alternative is worst. Could you imagine if Kamala got in? All of the asterisks above, and more would be amplified to the detriment of everyday Americans.
Look what happened in NJ - Sherrill wins on an affordability platform. What is the first thing she does? Raise the state sales tax, raise the state income tax - who is shitting who? This is why Trump won, at least the man does what he says he will do, despite all the bluster. Everything he has/is done/doing was his pre-elected platform.
Sorry you have TDS, but it is time make use of the tools God has given us, as opposed to letting them decay/rot/sit idle.
Agreed, but a little pushback on "Trump is a buffoon" comment. Trump seems to have two different personalities as you allude to. One is buffoonish, the other is all business. You might not agree with all the things he wants to do, but he is very serious about getting things done.
How about some constructive comments about all of those suffering from TDS.
I live in the Twin Cities (born in 1948 and a Vietnam Vet) and actually have relatives that suffer from TDS. I refuse to associate with them anymore - they are not thinking clearly, some are either on drugs, unemployed because they refuse to do anything that can't be done on a cell phone or computer, sucking the system for every possible benefit they can get for nothing, etc., etc.
I personally believe that most of what you are seeing is fear that the "suck" is coming to an end.
They are the reason that this country is in the position it is in. You cannot support this volume of society and its suck. They are the reason we are going to go under eventually.
Give them constructive jobs - like picking up trash on the highways before paying them to do nothing.
Some comments about how they cannot support ICE and the removal of illegal migrants, and especially those who already have violent track records would be helpful.
How about some bashing of those actually paying these folks to create havoc and call for them to cut off the funding (more free stuff) in every major city.
I am too old to consider moving out of the country but have suggested it to younger folks close to me. My current thought is "Thank God that I probably only have a few years left to enjoy this current less than wonderful country".
It is sad that many of my friends feel the same disappointment. We’re waiting it out, being grateful that there is something left for which to be grateful.
"The US seems to be split into two camps — each viciously opposed to the other. There are those who love the Big Man, almost no matter what he says or does. And there are those who despise him, again almost no matter what he says or does."
It seems to me that there is at least one more camp. A camp that finds much of what Trump does and says as bizarre, yet still prefers him to the alternatives we've been offered. What astounds me about the far left (which seems to control the democatic party) is that it never seems to occur to them that they can win by dropping their most extreme positions.
The again, maybe it's just like pro wrestling, and the only real concern is audience engagement.
Gas under 2 bucks, inflation down to under 3 %, gdp over 5% taxes at their lowest in decades. Maduro gone from Venezuela. Border secure. Illegal felon, rapist, murderers,pedophiles and gang bangers gone. Trillions of dollar investments into America. Wages going up and most prices stationary. People with ira’s and retirement plans accumulating wealth. What the hell’s not to like. He isnt the perfect man but neither are you Bill. I for one am liking what I see.
While Bongo Bill won't admit it, he is firmly in the TDS camp.
Headline! Americans and I live in fear! They might get shot while attempting to run over and ice agent.
Maybe you missed the fact that the pedos who were caught up in the Epstein blackmail operation are still out there, except the government won't reveal their names or investigate who was behind the honey pot operation.
Cartero, in case you missed it we are not talking about Epstein here. There is way more to all that case then you or I will ever know.
You stated the pedos were gone. I thought I missed a news story that all those pedos involved in the Epstein blackmail operation had been arrested. I guess you may have been talking about other pedos?
BOB, You have most of it right but I'm worried it's all nothing but a smoke screen to cover up the demise of the American system...the US will continue to exist into the future but not under the same freedoms and conditions that we all Americans are use to.
Mark, your right and we all know this can only end badly. Buying gold and silver is the only saftey net I see but somewhere down the road is the reckoning.
There is a third camp: the middle. They have been rendered mute/ineffective by the extremes of both parties and the money that invests in those extremes. The middle needs to get back in the game…not sure how that happens given the polarity in the country. Perhaps as the pendulum, which swung right in opposition to wokeness and ineptness, will hit the middle before it proceeds to “the warmth of collectivism” (God help us).
Per Gallup as reported today in John Ellis’ excellent Substack: “A record-high 45% of U.S. adults identified as political independents in 2025, surpassing the 43% measured in 2014, 2023 and 2024. Meanwhile, equal shares of U.S. adults — 27% each — identified as either Democrats or Republicans”
Ol' Smithy I so wish you were right. Unfortunately, this ol' man sees the only thing lying ahead is a crash of epic portions. The right/left or conservative/liberal or peace/war or whatever else separates us Americans so dramatically can only be undone by a complete and utter collapse. And, as the World continues to turn away from the U.S. and find alternate paths, the U.S. loses. We need the products of other countries - the U.S. is far, far from being self-sufficient and sanctions, tariffs, nor threats of war encourage others to trade with us. Currently, the only thing keeping America afloat is the amount of US$ floating around the world but this is losing its attraction and power. As for wars, the U.S. is good for maybe two (2) weeks then logistics fail. I don't see any way out but a complete collapse. Again, an ol' man muttering...........
Just added something I found after posting here. The problem with independents is that in many (most?) states, they have no voice in the primaries…
I find myself in that "Middle" group. I voted against Kamala Harris and the wokness the democrats were continuing to hawk in the election process. My hopes were a Trump likeness to Argentinas Mila but seems like we got a Trump full of bloviation and full of himself. My brother in law told me that while Trump was building the Atlantic city Trump casino which I think was in the 80's Trump stiffed a lot of little guy contractors out of money for work the did on completing the casino. A lot of local contractors were never paid for labor and materials they provided under contract.. bankruptcy had been Trump's best business partner over the years. If the democrats would have run someone better my vote may have gone that way. Trump was just the least of two evils at the time but has shown his colors in his actions. I think of myself as an independent thinker and voter and with what's on both sides of the isle I don't care for either side. Off to Costa Rica I go.
Where pray tell in Costa Rica?
Playa Hermosa just south of Jaco'.
Nice down that way. Have property up in the Tamarindo area. Getting too crowd and over-built now. Do like the weather on the coast though.
Ditto
And independents rarely win - just no base and no corporate backing. As radical as the political leans are it is hard to see how this ends without a disaster.
I think that those who become independents do so to avoid the burden of defending right or left.
oh geeze your still spewing your bullshit - you make zero sense and we guess just love to hear yourself as if what you offer matters - what a joke
I hate for you to be right but I am afraid you may be.
Trust me on this, Tom - I don't want to be right either. I am rapidly approaching my ninth decade and don't need what lies ahead. I think for us ol' folks is going to be horrific. I just don't see any other way.
Ol' Man...You still holding on to your prediction of economic calamity by the end of this year?
On Jan 2nd you wrote: "...believing the media and a delusional narcissist like Trump has a clue of how to help America gets its house in order is just so sad. Hope you have a Great 2026! By the mid-term, it is going to be horrific" (from your post above, clearly "horrific" is your preferred word)
... it is sad that we had to resort to a narcissist to remedy the acts of a senile.
Even more sad because the senile was to remedy the acts of the narcissist...
“This is about whether the Fed will be able to continue to set interest rates based on evidence and economic conditions”.
The FED has never set interest rates based on evidence and economic conditions.
The FED is a hot mess. And Powells reign has made it worse. Frankly. He should have been under investigation in Trumps first term.
I agree wholeheartedly that the Fed and Powell should have been investigated during Trump's first term, especially when they cut interest rates to 0% to .25% on 3/15/2020. That and massive money printing helped set the stage for more future inflation. The Fed's suppression of interest rates is helping to destroy the moral fiber of the US, disincentiving saving, encouraging reckless spending and creating bubbles that essentially benefit the wealthy classes.
Absolutely. The problem is (well there are many as you point out so I’ll just name one) that Congress doesn’t do their job, because they have zero incentive to reign in the FED. The FEDs Statuatory mandate is stable prices. Translated to language a Normie could understand, that means zero. Congress has never forced them to follow the law.
And if course, why would they. Via insider trading and other mechanisms they also benefit from the Cantillon effect of the FEDs lose money policies.
My takeaway from Bill's excellent assessment of our nation's divide: Our government's "checks and balances" are too fragile to restrain the Executive.
My forecast: Trump will be impeached for the third time by the House but acquitted by the Senate
I always enjoy your missives and respect your point of view. What the last 4 years under Biden did to this country is a game changer, teat it down let the fourth turning be a significant redirection of the country. The millennials and Z’s will either platform this political change or go in a socialist direction. Financial competence in refurbishing the building should fall on the Fed. They shouldn’t be oblivious to basic spending of taxpayer money.
The most important for me is the immigration issue at hand. Living in South Texas for the last 20 years has made me (most recently) very sympathetic to immigrants who have been productive and great citizens. Trump’s policies need to be very specific as to who he is trying to remove from this country because the MSM WILL NOT report the truth.
Another dumpster dive from Bongo Bill. He laments about drug smugglers "especially when they cling helplessly to the wreckage of their boat" as if the first strike wasn't meant to kill them. But I can understand the concern on Bongo Bill's part as he clings helplessly to any coherent rational thought process he might still have! He sets up the strawman that the populace is divided into irrational anti-Trump and pro-Trump camps, while he is firmly in the center as an honest, impartial observer. What a crock. There are enough distortions and half-truths in his column to warrant several paragraphs of rebuttal at a minimum. But I don't have that much time to waste.
While diving in tbe dumpster please do some research into Trump's pardon of ex Honduran president Hernández who had been convicted for moving over 400 tons of cocaine into the US. Trump says it was a Biden politically motivated prosecution. However, the prosecution was ongoing during the first Trump term and here's a little something from Univsion 8/19/2019 -"Honduran President Juan Orlando Hernández was identified Friday as a co-conspirator in a drug trafficking and money laundering case against his brother, according to document filed in U.S. district court."
So while some people may celebrate the killings of small time suspected drug smugglers a big time trafficker was given his freedom. In fact retired DEA Mike Vigil said Hernández was bigger than Pablo Escobar and El Chapo.
Yes, Cartero, I will stop everything I'm doing and do some research just for you! We all know you're a Trump hater and, like Bongo Bill, will focus only on the negative when it comes to Trump and present info that is one-sided and most likely out of context. By the way, it is not a matter of "celebrating" the killings of the drug smugglers. These people are part of a drug network that kills people.
Sorry. I replied down below. Basically why dodge the question by attributing it to a Trump hater taking things out of context. The facts are the facts - Donnie pardoned a big time drug trafficker and the document was filed in a US District Court during the first Trump administration. But just for your info, I'm not on either team and I think all four presidents this century were mediocre corrupt lying politicians. The scum rises to the top. At least I didn't change my opinion of Trump like JD Vance did. Check this out -Vance stated he went "back and forth between thinking Trump is a cynical asshole like Nixon... or that he’s America’s Hitler".
...gee Cartero...
I agree with a lot of what you wrote.
However, to state Trump is mediocre?
You make it clear you do not favor him.
But I don't think even you can put him in the mediocre column.
The fact your rants often focus on him is telling.
He is exceptional, if not exceptionally disliked...
BB you are so full of crap I don’t know how your brain functions. Your anti-Trump and anti-Israel rhetoric is well documented. My feeling is that the Federal reserve should be closed. They function as a department to protect the banking system. Interest rates should be a functioning of the free market. Other wasteful departments include the dept of energy and dept of education among others. You also say nothing about Trump helping the Iranians; much more than Obama did during his administration. This uprising in Iran could change the complete Middle East; it could result in less terrorism throughout the world which is sponsored by the Ayatollah Iranian regime. Take a strong laxative; maybe you will be able to think clearer.
Abe, as I recall from a little history that the federal reserve was set up by bankers . Not You and Me and the USA government gave its blessings. May be wrong as My memory does seem to fade over time.
Don
You are correct. It was done by bankers to protect bankers
Abe
Good point. Bongo Bill is full of sh*t.
IMO the two camps are minimally occupied.
The bulk of inhabitants to this analogy want neither but have no choice.
I thought I was paying for a financial news letter???
PS: When are you going to answer my question that Buffet’s 33% in cash is too much, but your 40% isn’t? Fortunately I’m 1% in cash.
My 1 year rate of return is 88%. With 40% cash at 12% it would likely be 60%…no I didn’t do the math, but 60% is close. What’s your 1 year rate of return?
Biden, Democrats, leftists, liberals and their loonies were Public Enemy #1.
I vote for Trump each time as opposed to the others, yet for me he is Public Embarrassment #1.
The degradation of the American political system is now a reality tv show.
Maybe it's time to join the "Vote for Nobody" party. Nobody will listen to you! Nobody will reduce the national debt! Nobody will investigate the Epstein blackmail operation!
Bill, I agree with your post but I would like it much more if you remove a slight antisemitic smell. From some other articles too.
...slight?
Beautifully expressed Bill!
I guess the cultists who worship the guy don’t believe in the Golden Rule!
This is a REALLY interesting thread. It's a perfect reflection of what 21st century politics does. It divides so you can be ruled.
God bless America. By golly, you along with the rest of the world, need it!