By protecting markets from competition, the feds are condemning US producers to inferior output at excessive prices. The greater the protection, the less competitive the producers become.
"If Volkswagen, Mercedes, Kia, Toyota and Hyundai et al switched all their manufacturing to the US, for example, which is what the tariffs are designed to encourage, our tariff revenue on them would go to zero."
...ok, but wouldn't there be an increase in jobs, with the resulting buying of things like cars, various goods and services, houses (well, maybe not houses with the out-of-sight prices now), etc.? Wouldn't there be taxes collected from that? Wouldn't there be taxes collected from "Volkswagen, Mercedes, Kia, Toyota and Hyundai et al" as they buy things required in the manufacturing process?
I'm no economist, but it seems like Mr. Bonner's quote above is looking at this from a static perspective.
Not so much a "static" perspective as a TDS one-sided perspective. My 2022 Hyundai Tucson was manufactured in the USA, and I believe most of the other manufacturers mentioned also have USA manufacturing facilities.
May I present a different perspective. Well I am going to give it anyway. Spilled milk is the past . Milk in the glass is present . We all want to preserve the present glass of milk. So I will agree with a lot of what B.B. says . Preserve and do not spill. That is some of My logic on this file of TDS vs. TDS.
I live in a different country (Australia) where our vehicle manufacturing was shut down years ago by the unions to protect workers rights. I don't know the answer to the question but I suspect someone on this platform does.
Just trying to understand the reality, forget I asked.
A "static perspective" is very useful when you're propagandizing. We should pray that Volkswagen, Mercedes, KIA, Toyota, Hyundai et al switch their manufacturing to the U.S.
Doesn’t that auto production compete with the domestic auto companies and syphon cash out of US back to their homeland? Again, no harm, no foul; just print more.
I intended it to be a humorous remark. You know like "boat" standing for "break out another thousand". My sister, the owner of thoroughbreds, is the author of the comment. She eventually went broke, but I did not berate her. She had the time of her life with those animals. I'm not disputing the worth and value of the horse. The history of Man is tied up with equines. Despite all technological progress, machinery is still rated in terms of the output capability of the horse. Anybody who hasn't seen Roy Rogers in "My Pal Trigger" wouldn't understand. Best always. PM
I have to admit, that photo caption with the Toyota Hilux really is a sore spot for me. I can’t get the very best turbo diesel pick up truck because of some stupid government policy. The cheap crappy Chinese cars, you can keep those. We have a saying about the cheap Chinese knock off dirt bikes, they’re made from Chinesium, terrible cheap metal that fatigues and breaks and is hard to weld without blowing through it. Oh, and it corrodes faster.
Our government doesn’t allow for the import of the Hilux, I think it’s rooted in an old import restriction on “commercial trucks” which I guess the turbo diesel Hilux qualifies. All I know is that the only way to get a Hilux is to buy one over 25 years old.
I live somewhere Chinese EVs are (very) affordable.
Chinese EVs vary widely, but many just blows European/Japanese alternatives out of the water.
I own a 5 yo Mercedes SUV, replaced an older Japanese model with the latest Chinese EV SUV a year ago, and have no intention of returning to the Merc if it reaches the end of its life. Experiences differ, of course.
Be careful how you shorten the Mercedes name. In my day, a "Merc" was a Mercury, and I missed a word or two of your comment when I read "Merc", and then after a mental WTF came back to reality. In my neck of the woods in the day, "Mercury" was pronounced "Merkary". Ah, the good, ol' times... Best always. PM
Just found myself a 1939 Merc sedan Paul, with a running V8 here in Australia. Beautiful shape the old sloper. It is a huge car, the body is 8 inches wider than the 39 Ford, seats 3 easy front and back. I will have fun getting her going!
Right-hand or left-hand controls? Sounds like a blast. I had an old flat-head Cadillac (1947 series 60) for years. Sold it to a bloke in Spain! Great fun. Best always. PM
It must have been an Australian built job so rhd. I've found some unique Australian bits, the door handles are not the square shaft of the US models but a spline affair found on later cars. The car is pretty complete but someone had swiped the handles, that's how I found out.
Interesting. I don’t have any experience with EV’s period, not really a fan. Overall, I haven’t been impressed with the dirt bikes and their cheap metal frames.
President Trump doesn’t run a trade war, he runs a confidence scam against reality itself. Tariffs go up, down, sideways, backwards, and occasionally through the wall like a drunk driver. This isn’t economic policy, it’s astrology for men who failed math but aced yelling. Trump stares at the shrinking economy and says, “See? It’s working. It hurts because it’s healing.” Yeah Buddy, that’s what tumors say.
He slapped tariffs on our neighbors like a jealous ex smashing their own phone. “You made me do this!” Then China packs up and trades with Canada, and Trump screams betrayal like he didn’t just light the bridge on fire and pee on the ashes.
And banning Chinese electric vehicles? That’s elite-tier stupidity. “They’re too cheap, too good, too popular. Ban them.” Yeah, ok….that’s not protecting industry, that’s putting American producers in a bubble-wrap coffin and calling it strength. Congratulations, you’ve turned competition into a death trap, like a snake eating its own ass while chanting the national anthem.
But the tariffs raise money, Trump says. Which is true, if you don’t look at the scale. It’s like bragging you found twenty bucks while the house is underwater. I love the “dividend” though. “We taxed you, raised prices, crushed wages, shaved years off your earning life, and now we’re giving you back a coupon.” They call it a dividend, but it’s Stockholm Syndrome with receipts.
The real genius is how the pain is perfectly diluted. Nobody bleeds out, everyone just gets anemic. Millions lose a little, so nobody revolts. That’s empire decay, baby. Not collapse, rot. Slow, quiet, spreadsheet-flavored rot. Donald calls it “revival.” Historians call it “How Did These Idiots Stay in Charge So Long?”
He has single handedly managed to alienate allies, enrich rivals, punish citizens, shrink GDP, and still sound proud doing it. That’s impressive. Most people fail privately. Trump fails nationally and calls it leadership.
Strange, how gold and or gold holdings don't give a hoot whether you are republican, democrat or what your nationality might be. Until world events (concerning the dollar) are stablized one way or another, holding some form of gold or silver may prove to be like having a strong underground shelter during a massive tornado. This is an old man's insight for what it's worth.
BB-While I agree with this report. Not one administration has tried something different. Repeating the same over and over is insanity. Give Trump’s policies a chance. If they work GREAT. If not, vote another into office. We live in a take care of me society, so trying to cut expenses will be almost impossible. Many Americans love freebies. What they don’t understand is someone has to pay for it. Eventually those paying the bills will say. I’m OUT.
I have become fatalistic over time; there are always more who can be deceived than there are who can understand. All that really matters is where you happen to make your appearance in the cycle. I broke through in late 1952, about 11:30 on the "clock" by my reckoning. Trouble is, I don't know whether it's 4:30 now or pushing 6:00. I could be persuaded either way. Something tells me it can and will get a lot worse. Best always. PM
I remember several years ago the U.S. levied a $500 dollar tariff on Japanese cars to give domestic producers an advantage. Domestic producers raised their prices $500 dollars. The whole thing is a zoo and I sure as heck am not buying a new car. I am told there are more horses in the country than at any other time in history. That just might come in handy unless they decide to put a tariff on horses. If you think about it you could eat your horse,know what I am saying?
IM the first person I ever knew who bought a foreign car. I bought a honda in iowa from a buick dealer. We were that arrogant and gave away most of our industrial base. Under several quotes said they are not competitors
GM led the way on that gambit. By the end of the decade (70s), Jimma was bailing out Lee Iococca's Chrysler, while the Japanese ate our automotive lunch. Best always. PM
When policies are so irrational, so boneheaded it’s hard to not continue to comment. Action that harms the general population must be good for some people. How can I join the party? That’s what I want to know. (Just kidding) Alas, we are much better at division than multiplication. It tends to feed the belly of contention while simple addition & subtraction escape us. Not much adds up these days, so, let’s just keep on complaining.
A buddy of mine used to (semi)joke about that, especially after Obama went nuts on pandering and vote-buying. "How do I get in on it?" he'd ask. And I'd say, "There always has to be a sucker, holding the proverbial bag." Best always. PM
I am sure that we are all Berry berry sordy. Tank you for your contribution and attentionum to this madder. Why did you pay two thousand dollars in fees? Because it was worth it..... I thought those fees would crush economic velocity.
If one is delusional and think you are King of the World - then yes. Everybody must bow down to the Orange King. But, these other almost 200 countries aren't lining up - didn't they get the memo? What is wrong with these other countries and leaders - don't they know the Orange King "knows all". America's hegemony is ending and it isn't going to be pleasant or easy. They are going to make it as ugly and horrific as possible. Stay tuned...........as always - just an opinion.
here we go, with the same old tired rhetoric, King of the world, taco man, orange man, etc - Such a sever case of TDS, no cure, as always the same old shitty opinion, the sky is falling, orange man bad, the great seer An Ol'LSO thinks that because he landed aircraft he is a seer into the future and knows all - get lost. Your bullshit is even losing its odor you have been pitching it so long. No one cares! STFU!
W S -- Let's be fair. Among our Dear Leader's attributes, you omitted habitual liar, sex offender, philanderer and convicted felon. Surely, they suggest something's not right with him?
You gotta hand it to the ChiComs: They unleashed the entrepreneurial zeal of their population.
Predictably, with lower labor costs, they have been able to seize more and more share of worldwide markets. Now, the Vietnamese and Indonesians are emulating them.
Interestingly, from my neck of the woods, local furniture factories are sending wood to their factories in these countries. This wood is returned to them in the form of finished furniture for sale to US consumers.
The Americans who used to make this furniture don't buy it, but plenty others do; that is, until Trump's tariffs began depressing sales
Have you recently looked in a mirror with your outdated and narcissistic comments. Left overs from the 80’s, what exactly is your contribution that we can’t get by watch some 80’s reruns? Get lost, taco man, orange king, look alike….hahaha that is why you hate the man, you look just like him!
"If Volkswagen, Mercedes, Kia, Toyota and Hyundai et al switched all their manufacturing to the US, for example, which is what the tariffs are designed to encourage, our tariff revenue on them would go to zero."
...ok, but wouldn't there be an increase in jobs, with the resulting buying of things like cars, various goods and services, houses (well, maybe not houses with the out-of-sight prices now), etc.? Wouldn't there be taxes collected from that? Wouldn't there be taxes collected from "Volkswagen, Mercedes, Kia, Toyota and Hyundai et al" as they buy things required in the manufacturing process?
I'm no economist, but it seems like Mr. Bonner's quote above is looking at this from a static perspective.
Not so much a "static" perspective as a TDS one-sided perspective. My 2022 Hyundai Tucson was manufactured in the USA, and I believe most of the other manufacturers mentioned also have USA manufacturing facilities.
No question on the TDS. Living in head. Rent-free.
May I present a different perspective. Well I am going to give it anyway. Spilled milk is the past . Milk in the glass is present . We all want to preserve the present glass of milk. So I will agree with a lot of what B.B. says . Preserve and do not spill. That is some of My logic on this file of TDS vs. TDS.
Was your Tucson manufactured in the US or assembled there? Where did the parts come from? Big difference.
From what I understand there is no such thing as a one hundred percent car made in America as parts are contracted out to many different countries.
Well, if you know so much about this, why don't you tell me...or are you just fishing?
I live in a different country (Australia) where our vehicle manufacturing was shut down years ago by the unions to protect workers rights. I don't know the answer to the question but I suspect someone on this platform does.
Just trying to understand the reality, forget I asked.
A "static perspective" is very useful when you're propagandizing. We should pray that Volkswagen, Mercedes, KIA, Toyota, Hyundai et al switch their manufacturing to the U.S.
Exactly.
Doesn’t that auto production compete with the domestic auto companies and syphon cash out of US back to their homeland? Again, no harm, no foul; just print more.
CNN, Politico, BBC... Not perspective. Dogma.
.
For sure. When Mr Bonner is quoting CNN, any shred of objectivity, as well as credibility, goes right out the window.
The credibility was out the window a long, long time ago.
Got through a couple paragraphs and just scrolled to the end. More mindless drivel
But, Mike, that's Bongo Bill's area of expertise - mindless drivel!
True, I guess he sticks with what he knows
Good insights, Bill. I sure wish you had told us this earlier.
Oh wait. You did. Repeatedly. Nothing bores like endless repitition. Time to get a new dead horse to beat, I think.
Oh no my man the horse is very much alive and kicking!
Somebody once told me that if you like overhead, you'll LOVE a horse. Best always. PM
He wasn't lying, but when it comes time to haul an elk off a mountain, that overhead is very much worth it and then some.
I intended it to be a humorous remark. You know like "boat" standing for "break out another thousand". My sister, the owner of thoroughbreds, is the author of the comment. She eventually went broke, but I did not berate her. She had the time of her life with those animals. I'm not disputing the worth and value of the horse. The history of Man is tied up with equines. Despite all technological progress, machinery is still rated in terms of the output capability of the horse. Anybody who hasn't seen Roy Rogers in "My Pal Trigger" wouldn't understand. Best always. PM
No worries---I took it as a humorous remark. ☺️
I have to admit, that photo caption with the Toyota Hilux really is a sore spot for me. I can’t get the very best turbo diesel pick up truck because of some stupid government policy. The cheap crappy Chinese cars, you can keep those. We have a saying about the cheap Chinese knock off dirt bikes, they’re made from Chinesium, terrible cheap metal that fatigues and breaks and is hard to weld without blowing through it. Oh, and it corrodes faster.
Chinesium! Genius! Best always. PM
Thank you! May you out live your straw mat. Many Yumms!
I'm confused. "I can't get the very best turbo diesel pick up truck because of some stupid government policy". What government? Ours or theirs?
Oh, one other thing, you generally get what you pay for. Both Chinese and American.
Our government doesn’t allow for the import of the Hilux, I think it’s rooted in an old import restriction on “commercial trucks” which I guess the turbo diesel Hilux qualifies. All I know is that the only way to get a Hilux is to buy one over 25 years old.
I live somewhere Chinese EVs are (very) affordable.
Chinese EVs vary widely, but many just blows European/Japanese alternatives out of the water.
I own a 5 yo Mercedes SUV, replaced an older Japanese model with the latest Chinese EV SUV a year ago, and have no intention of returning to the Merc if it reaches the end of its life. Experiences differ, of course.
Be careful how you shorten the Mercedes name. In my day, a "Merc" was a Mercury, and I missed a word or two of your comment when I read "Merc", and then after a mental WTF came back to reality. In my neck of the woods in the day, "Mercury" was pronounced "Merkary". Ah, the good, ol' times... Best always. PM
Just found myself a 1939 Merc sedan Paul, with a running V8 here in Australia. Beautiful shape the old sloper. It is a huge car, the body is 8 inches wider than the 39 Ford, seats 3 easy front and back. I will have fun getting her going!
Right-hand or left-hand controls? Sounds like a blast. I had an old flat-head Cadillac (1947 series 60) for years. Sold it to a bloke in Spain! Great fun. Best always. PM
It must have been an Australian built job so rhd. I've found some unique Australian bits, the door handles are not the square shaft of the US models but a spline affair found on later cars. The car is pretty complete but someone had swiped the handles, that's how I found out.
Interesting. I don’t have any experience with EV’s period, not really a fan. Overall, I haven’t been impressed with the dirt bikes and their cheap metal frames.
Maybe the "alloy" Chinesium has actual dirt in it? Best always. PM
Call powered chinese EVs. I'm guessing they're export markets aren't exactly in great britain about india and other coal powered nations.
President Trump doesn’t run a trade war, he runs a confidence scam against reality itself. Tariffs go up, down, sideways, backwards, and occasionally through the wall like a drunk driver. This isn’t economic policy, it’s astrology for men who failed math but aced yelling. Trump stares at the shrinking economy and says, “See? It’s working. It hurts because it’s healing.” Yeah Buddy, that’s what tumors say.
He slapped tariffs on our neighbors like a jealous ex smashing their own phone. “You made me do this!” Then China packs up and trades with Canada, and Trump screams betrayal like he didn’t just light the bridge on fire and pee on the ashes.
And banning Chinese electric vehicles? That’s elite-tier stupidity. “They’re too cheap, too good, too popular. Ban them.” Yeah, ok….that’s not protecting industry, that’s putting American producers in a bubble-wrap coffin and calling it strength. Congratulations, you’ve turned competition into a death trap, like a snake eating its own ass while chanting the national anthem.
But the tariffs raise money, Trump says. Which is true, if you don’t look at the scale. It’s like bragging you found twenty bucks while the house is underwater. I love the “dividend” though. “We taxed you, raised prices, crushed wages, shaved years off your earning life, and now we’re giving you back a coupon.” They call it a dividend, but it’s Stockholm Syndrome with receipts.
The real genius is how the pain is perfectly diluted. Nobody bleeds out, everyone just gets anemic. Millions lose a little, so nobody revolts. That’s empire decay, baby. Not collapse, rot. Slow, quiet, spreadsheet-flavored rot. Donald calls it “revival.” Historians call it “How Did These Idiots Stay in Charge So Long?”
He has single handedly managed to alienate allies, enrich rivals, punish citizens, shrink GDP, and still sound proud doing it. That’s impressive. Most people fail privately. Trump fails nationally and calls it leadership.
Strange, how gold and or gold holdings don't give a hoot whether you are republican, democrat or what your nationality might be. Until world events (concerning the dollar) are stablized one way or another, holding some form of gold or silver may prove to be like having a strong underground shelter during a massive tornado. This is an old man's insight for what it's worth.
BB-While I agree with this report. Not one administration has tried something different. Repeating the same over and over is insanity. Give Trump’s policies a chance. If they work GREAT. If not, vote another into office. We live in a take care of me society, so trying to cut expenses will be almost impossible. Many Americans love freebies. What they don’t understand is someone has to pay for it. Eventually those paying the bills will say. I’m OUT.
I have become fatalistic over time; there are always more who can be deceived than there are who can understand. All that really matters is where you happen to make your appearance in the cycle. I broke through in late 1952, about 11:30 on the "clock" by my reckoning. Trouble is, I don't know whether it's 4:30 now or pushing 6:00. I could be persuaded either way. Something tells me it can and will get a lot worse. Best always. PM
Sadly. I agree. Things will get a lot worse. Hopefully then improvement.
Gotta get past 6:00 for that. Best always. PM
Next week, Bill will blame Canada's sick policies on euthanasia on DJT!
Cmon! It's free! No tariff.
He closed the border. Best always. PM
I remember several years ago the U.S. levied a $500 dollar tariff on Japanese cars to give domestic producers an advantage. Domestic producers raised their prices $500 dollars. The whole thing is a zoo and I sure as heck am not buying a new car. I am told there are more horses in the country than at any other time in history. That just might come in handy unless they decide to put a tariff on horses. If you think about it you could eat your horse,know what I am saying?
IM the first person I ever knew who bought a foreign car. I bought a honda in iowa from a buick dealer. We were that arrogant and gave away most of our industrial base. Under several quotes said they are not competitors
GM led the way on that gambit. By the end of the decade (70s), Jimma was bailing out Lee Iococca's Chrysler, while the Japanese ate our automotive lunch. Best always. PM
Sooo…what’s your point ?
Just continue to let other countries run over us with tiny tariffs while we import (mostly) junk, low quality goods ?
Or should we just let Biden administration continue to basically rob the country with their huge kick-back pet programs ?
Or are you implying that you could do a better job as President ?
Personally I have never voted for anyone..ever !
Politics is way too complicated and I have much better things to do with my time.
When policies are so irrational, so boneheaded it’s hard to not continue to comment. Action that harms the general population must be good for some people. How can I join the party? That’s what I want to know. (Just kidding) Alas, we are much better at division than multiplication. It tends to feed the belly of contention while simple addition & subtraction escape us. Not much adds up these days, so, let’s just keep on complaining.
A buddy of mine used to (semi)joke about that, especially after Obama went nuts on pandering and vote-buying. "How do I get in on it?" he'd ask. And I'd say, "There always has to be a sucker, holding the proverbial bag." Best always. PM
The bag is large and bulky. Many are they who will gladly hold the unwieldy artifact of ignorance and fear.
And this information that you have again regurgitated, suggests that we invest how?
The investment Advice is go long on fossil fuels. I happened to agree. That doesn't square up with today's thesis.
Well put Bill!
The orange clowns policies cost me around $2000 bucks in “fees” for an item of jewelry I purchased in September from India.
should have bought it in the US - you could have saved 2K! lol
I am sure that we are all Berry berry sordy. Tank you for your contribution and attentionum to this madder. Why did you pay two thousand dollars in fees? Because it was worth it..... I thought those fees would crush economic velocity.
Another MAGA moron! Yeah big gubmint is bad until my guy is in charge. Then it's hunky-dory!
Who’s the moron who paid an extra $2k for some Indian trinket?
Hey Mike you exemplify the typical MAGA ignoramous, pontificating on shit you know nothing about!
Not a very smart move
Actually the big gubmint tarrifs is the dumb move.
I know that you’re the dope who paid a supposed $2k tariff boss!
Alright ya old geezer I’ve wasted enough of my valuable time time on you!
Get off your knees everyone now and then and give “the Donald” a little while to recuperate!
I thought the trade war was supposed to be the easiest thing to win.
If one is delusional and think you are King of the World - then yes. Everybody must bow down to the Orange King. But, these other almost 200 countries aren't lining up - didn't they get the memo? What is wrong with these other countries and leaders - don't they know the Orange King "knows all". America's hegemony is ending and it isn't going to be pleasant or easy. They are going to make it as ugly and horrific as possible. Stay tuned...........as always - just an opinion.
here we go, with the same old tired rhetoric, King of the world, taco man, orange man, etc - Such a sever case of TDS, no cure, as always the same old shitty opinion, the sky is falling, orange man bad, the great seer An Ol'LSO thinks that because he landed aircraft he is a seer into the future and knows all - get lost. Your bullshit is even losing its odor you have been pitching it so long. No one cares! STFU!
W S -- Let's be fair. Among our Dear Leader's attributes, you omitted habitual liar, sex offender, philanderer and convicted felon. Surely, they suggest something's not right with him?
...while we're being fair, the felony conviction seems to be only applicable to Republicans.
4 more years of Harris or Biden, the Chinese flag would be atop the White house...
You gotta hand it to the ChiComs: They unleashed the entrepreneurial zeal of their population.
Predictably, with lower labor costs, they have been able to seize more and more share of worldwide markets. Now, the Vietnamese and Indonesians are emulating them.
Interestingly, from my neck of the woods, local furniture factories are sending wood to their factories in these countries. This wood is returned to them in the form of finished furniture for sale to US consumers.
The Americans who used to make this furniture don't buy it, but plenty others do; that is, until Trump's tariffs began depressing sales
... California is facing a wine crisis.
South American wine and concentrates are killing California's market share.
This is occurring in Europe too!
Liberals are screaming for tariffs!
-
Everyone likes globalization until they are on the educating end of it...
It used to be the opposite when I was younger. Now, we have the reverse. What happened? Best always. PM
"China unleashed the entrepreneurial zeal of their population."
It was that or face revolution. Expedience over virtue, it seems to me, but perspective is everything. PM
Pls go away. You never add anything to the Comments - just continued BS. So tiring..............
The pot calling the kettle black. I used a cliche on purpose.
Have you recently looked in a mirror with your outdated and narcissistic comments. Left overs from the 80’s, what exactly is your contribution that we can’t get by watch some 80’s reruns? Get lost, taco man, orange king, look alike….hahaha that is why you hate the man, you look just like him!
Are you French?
Today’s WSJ analysis on the subject of Trump tariffs is worth a read. Cliff notes: neither the home run Trump promised nor the failure critics suggest. My 2 cents: in general, far more trouble than they are worth. https://www.wsj.com/economy/why-everyone-got-trumps-tariffs-wrong-d16a4598?st=m42eHx&reflink=article_copyURL_share
You’re part of the “deep state” Orange Man bad!