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Charles Veit's avatar

I believe Bonner stated earlier this year that government spending should not be counted in GDP because it does not produce anything, and it falsely leads us to believe things are better than they really are - giving money to companies to build manufacturing plants, increasing the debt that taxpayers will later pay (plus interest).

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rKf's avatar
May 23Edited

As long as lawmakers benefit personally from the bills they present to the president for his signature, why should we expect them to change anything? They brag about how much money they spend.

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John Gerstle's avatar

Yes RK, you’re, so damn correct.

Capitalism is not at fault, those self serving clowns that run the country and spend the dough are to blame. We so desperately need term limits, a balanced budget amendment, return to a gold standard and a simplified tax structure….maybe even a flat tax?

And while we’re at it let’s outlaw lobbyists ….

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Mackinac's avatar

I'm totally with you on all accounts, John. Now the outlawing of lobbyists seems at first glance to inhibit freedom of speech but on the other hand your average citizen can't afford to go to Washington DC to hopefully get in to see her representatives. I write mine all the time, almost weekly, but they tell me all the good things they are doing for me. Makes me think that they don't understand I don't want their promises. What I want is money that doesn't lose value so a gold standard, less taxes and less promises and a fairer field of play i.e. less "purchased" influence by big business. Primarily what I want is rule of law rather than lawfare, otherwise known as honesty and integrity.

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John Gerstle's avatar

Hi “Mac” ( I hope that you allow abbreviations),

Lobbyists are just another part of the fiscal cesspool that reigns supreme in the Washington cash register that advances themselves financially at the expense of the taxpayer. To expect any of them to much care about the common man is a fools errand.

They’re only there for themselves and the corporate entities that they are paid to represent and to provide benefit for.

I once knew one who lived here in Louisville who represented GE. Nice guy, but only talked of how he advanced his corporate employer’s interests

Thanks for your input.

Fiat lux,

John Gerstle

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Frank Westmoreland's avatar

I usually blame the folks more than their representatives. So much money anymore (so much of it borrowed) spent by Congress is to maintain jobs and keep people who refuse to work from starving. If Congress reduced the federal budget by half-a-trillion dollars, millions of folks would soon be unemployed or at food shelters, and most members of Congress would quickly find THEIR jobs in serious jeopardy. There would be enormous marches on DC never seen before. The debt-for-jobs train of the 21st Century has left the station, and I don't see how you turn it around, especially with SO MANY SPOILED, SOFT Americans. A reduction in govt. spending would have to be VERY gradual over a lengthy period. And then the ultimate baddies; i.e., the boys and girls who comprise the Fed, would have to toe the line.

One thing that bothers me with conservatives like MTG and Rep. Matt Gaetz is that they criticize fellow congressional Republicans, calling them RINOs, for not wanting to greatly reduce spending. But MTG/Gaetz know their grandstanding is disingenuous, because if this did occur, THEY would probably be in serious job trouble when tens of thousands of their soft constituents started losing their jobs, or older constituents' SS was slashed. And I point this out as a person who agrees with MTG and Rep. Gaetz 95+% of the time pertaining to the major issues. But I have much more respect in this area with U.S. Sen. Rand Paul, who regularly tries to propose going the gradual spending reduction route. But he is regularly laughed at in Congress. This is how bad the situation has become in this country this century.

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Paul Murray's avatar

The brake on capitalism is the marketplace; the action of the market will provide the feedback necessary for self-correction and regulation. Freedom is necessary for marketplace participants to make the choices that will provide the feedback. Government is inimical to both the marketplace and freedom. The more government a nation selects or enables, the less freedom that nation has and the more crippled its marketplace becomes. This is the story of the USA. She started free and ended up like Gulliver on the beaches of Lilliput. Best always. PM

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Gone Fishin’'s avatar

A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself.

“The most foolish notion of all is the belief that everything is just which is found in the customs or laws of nations. Would that be true, even if these laws had been enacted by tyrants?”

“What of the many deadly, the many pestilential statutes which nations put in force? These no more deserve to be called laws than the rules a band of robbers might pass in their assembly. For if ignorant and unskillful men have prescribed deadly poisons instead of healing drugs, these cannot possibly be called physicians’ prescriptions; neither in a nation can a statute of any sort be called a law, even though the nation, in spite of being a ruinous regulation, has accepted it.” — the legendary orator, Marcus Tullius Cicero

Time passes. Empires rise and fall. A man goes into the woods. He thinks. He produces an essay.

“Must the citizen... resign his conscience to the legislator?” he asked in the essay now called “Civil Disobedience.” “Why has every man a conscience then? I think that we should be men first, and subjects afterward.” Thoreau’s distinction was made even clearer: “It is not desirable to cultivate a respect for the law, so much as for the right.” To Thoreau, laws were only worthy of respect and allegiance when they did not violate one’s conscience — when they were right.

I heartily accept the motto, “That government is best which governs least”; and I should like to see it acted up to more rapidly and systematically. Carried out, it finally amounts to this, which also I believe— “That government is best which governs not at all”; and when men are prepared for it, that will be the kind of government which they will have. — Henry David Thoreau

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Paul Murray's avatar

My favorite Thoreau-ism: "I constitute a majority of one." Impractical but wonderful. Best always. PM

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Gone Fishin’'s avatar

And, I thought I was the majority of one.

A few million more, and we’ve got a party.

Thoreauists.

Cheers,

M

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Keith Hallman's avatar

The point has been adequately made by you on a daily basis that going off the gold standard in 1971 was a “fatal” mistake. We all get it. What are the chances that our country will go back to the gold standard: zero!

Perhaps you could conjure up some ways to make control of congresses purse strings more realistic. I guess that’s not possible. One possibility would be term limits, the other doing away with lobbyists. Nothing is impossible, except going back to gold. Or are you still hoping? Keith Hallman

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Paul Murray's avatar

The problem is not gold: the problem is government. The problem with government is that it NEVER self-reduces. We're not going to have the House and the Senate look at one another and say, "Oh, my, we have become too big and obtrusive. We need to start dismantling all this regulation we have built up over centuries. It is beginning to strangle us." Government loves to regulate everything but itself, and it is the government that needs regulating most of all. Best always. PM

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Dorothy's avatar

PM: AMEN!

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Bob H's avatar

WOW!! Dorothy, I'm shocked that you agree with PM's post. How can your leanings be so far left and Biden-supporting when he will NEVER reduce either the size of gov't or interfering regulations? Most of your posts make me seethe with frustration but this short one warms my heart!! Thanks.

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Gone Fishin’'s avatar

I totally concur with your every word.

I like how Marin Katusa put it, “ At 211 °F, water is merely hot. Steaming as it simmers quietly, on the cusp of transformation. Yet, at 212 °F, a mere one-degree difference ushers in an intense transformation. Water begins to boil, releasing powerful steam capable of powering a freight train.”

Not worthy of a response in a resuscitation effort. Too easy to eviscerate it with words. No point in doing CPR on that cadaver. That’s just giving oxygen to a tiny spark.

It’s her choice to persistently embarrass and humiliate herself. Everytime she posts a comment, I am reminded of SNL skit Weekend Update satire known as Point-Counterpoint which evokes a priceless punchline directed towards actress Jane Curtain’s character from actor Dan Ackroyd.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=x0hUQH53TFs

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Frank Westmoreland's avatar

Exactly, Mr. Murray, you nailed it. Lobbyists represent mostly private-sector workers at major companies. And these workers are usually voters. So lobbyists are not the problem. The problem is government, which has for sometime wielded too much power and control over the private sector. And continues, via govt. regulators, to want more power and control until the economy collapses.

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Graeme's avatar

Maybe the new reserve currency will be gold backed and what America does won't matter.

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StarboardEdge's avatar

We have a winner...

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Dennis T.'s avatar

The trick at the end of an empire is to leverage the fantom economy into gold or other valuable assets. As a Mexican lad once opined in my office. "I wanted to come to America because you can buy valuable things with paper. His plan was to work in America, live on the cheap and buy gold and silver to carry across the border. He figured $50k in gold would set him up for life in Pablo his native village.

What actually happened, he watched the boss buy a million dollars worth of real estate with no money out of his pocket, manage it for 5 years and sell for a handsome profit. That changed his entire mentality and today he's one of the more propertied migrants in Philadelphia. He never got around to applying for a Green Card or telling anyone who he was. He figured out the system of trust investing and he was off to the races or bull fights. Only in America and only because of fiat money. If banks thought the money they lend was really worth anything they'd be more careful lending it out.

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Paul Murray's avatar

Your Horatio Alger story would not have been possible in 1950s America. I don't need to interpret that for you; make of it what you will. Best always. PM

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David's avatar

Capitalism hasn't failed, we have failed capitalism.

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Paul Murray's avatar

Benjamin Franklin: "a republic if you can keep it." We found out we weren't up to the task. Capitalism works; it just hasn't been implemented correctly. Wait! We've heard that somewhere before...Best always. PM

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Xavier Narutowicz's avatar

Fire power is a matter of focus. The US spends 4million to knock down a 2k Houthi drone. They do that from a half trillion naval task force and Houthi shuts down Gulf. Russia knocks out billion dollar tank with 1k drone. US was a manufacturing giant, the China of its age; now, it consumes what others produce with financial flimflam. We have 1.6 trillion in education loans and no one gets educated.

I would say something is wrong. It all must have been created by the silent hand directed by a mouth full of lies. Obviously, the fee market has gone crazy, something directed it, everyone running around trying to get what’s best for themselves is a disaster.

It always leads to the same disaster of the few having everything at the expense of the many.

We are far from devising an ism that works because nothing devised by men will ever work.

Technology is causing “The Abolition of Man.”

Quite an interesting, dangerous situation.

But, don’t talk about God and the ethics and motivation that comes from that source.

People should listen to Jordan Peterson’s “Wrestling with God.” It’s probably an insight in to the ultimate safety mode, given that our time is short and you can’t take it with you.

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Paul Murray's avatar

Brother Xave, Isn't this all a version of Tennyson's (oops, evil white man rears, or has reared for him, his ugly head) " 'tis better to have loved and lost than to have never loved at all?" Or Dr. Seuss's "don't be sad it's over; be glad it happened?" We've got to find a win here somewhere. Best always. PM

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Richard Smith's avatar

Bill , I like your basic statement of how Capitalism works and without the key ingredients, it doesn't work .Thats all, cause that sums it all up.

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Don Hrehirchek's avatar

How good old capitalism works. Thanks for the reminders!

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Kevin Johnson's avatar

"Elon Musk, for example, who is said to ‘sleep on the factory floor’ from time to time."

Musk is a phony whose ventures were financed by the state aka the tax slaves.

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Paul Murray's avatar

He is a lefty-lib socialist who has learned how the system works and what the powers-that-be want to hear. Smart enough to be able to see trends and what is coming, he will be a perma-chameleon, changing his appearance as necessary to get ahead. He is the ultimate "fox". Best always. PM

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Dorothy's avatar

PM: But a very smart one!

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Dorothy's avatar

KJ: Musk's wealth if largely dependent on Tesla shares.Though he takes no salary from Tesla.

Musk also owns companies: Tesla, Space X, The Boring Co., and X Corp. As well as Hyperloop which is a system that is built to reduce the commuting time from L.A. to S.F significantly; unfortunately, it hasn't been approved yet. He has been an inventor since his teenage years. There are other things he has done, and is still working on, but I think you get the message.

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Dorothy's avatar

KJ: I meant to include Starlink where you can access the internet from any location on the planet. It's a new technology designed to break down the current stigma when it comes to accessing satellite internet. It provides services to the remotest regions in the world. So they will also enjoy connection benefits like urban centers.

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David's avatar

Nothing new in the technology. Its TCP/IP over a satellite connection, nothing more.

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StarboardEdge's avatar

Maybe, but the slingshots our vaunted NASA uses to attempt placing items in LEO weren't cutting it. Elon's contribution is in dependable, reliable, cheap(er) delivery - regardless if what is being deliver is new or old tech...

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Dorothy's avatar

David: Tell that to all the countries that didn't have it before.

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MarcusTC's avatar

Snake oil salesman Musk is. Remove the government subsidies to all his businesses (solar, Tesla, etc) and he is worthless. Thought that was Bill’s point about Ford but then he highlights Musk of all people .

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Dorothy's avatar

MTC: You don't have to like someone to appreciate his/her contribution to society .

Neuralink is his latest contribution. Read about it, you might be impressed.

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RICH's avatar

How does Mr. Biden respond when you present him with this treatise? Is he proud of how is ensuring his Fellow Americans with a stable and secure future? Don't forget to vote!

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Tom Sanders's avatar

Reagan said it best…..the government is the problem…

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Stevan Ball's avatar

GDP & GNP - Gross Domestic Phantasy & Gross National Phantasy all based on Keynesian economics (mathematically flawed in its structure and theory)

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Steven Hall's avatar

Love it. Please feel free to visit my highschool economics class if in Finland!

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Lee Floyd's avatar

Very good stuff Bill. You're on you A game with this one.

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